[Greatest I am]

God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Omnipotent is defined in part as having power or authority without limits IOW, almighty.

Seems to me that God has a few limits.

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
He could not create a heaven without Satan.
He could not create Eden without evil in it.
He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.
He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

[I Gurn Hard]

God told me to mention that he could reproduce, but all the angels are on the pill.

[Aisha~~]

Oh we're still arguing over religion? I thought we left that behind a few century's ago...

Nevermind.

[OSharp]

Im not even sure how relevant this is to the argument, I hope this clears up your questions. THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF 90s DANCE MUSIC!!!



what I am really saying is 'oh no another thread about god that employs entirely false logic on the asumption that any omnipotent entity could ever be comprehended by mortals.

LET CHAOS ENSUE!

[katyness]

Do you know what's funny? I have been using TSR for a little over 2 years now and I have seen so many religion threads. Especially those created by atheists.

I just have one little question though: what are you trying to achieve when you create threads like this? Are you expecting Christians to reply saying "yes, you are right and we're wrong. God doesn't exist" is that it? Because I can tell you that a true Christian wouldn't do that. Some people believe and some people don't can't we just leave this type of discussions in our minds?

Damn people...

[Cheese_Monster]

The main issue I have with the monotheistic religions particularly Christianity is the claim that God is omnipotent and omnibenevolent. Clearly, the guy is not. If a God exists, it is much less than the vague term 'perfect'.

[sammy-lou]

I don't know why everyone's criticising OP for starting this thread. Yeah, there are a million and one threads about religion on TSR, but why does that mean it shouldn't continue to be discussed?

TSR is here so that these things CAN be discussed in an environment where like-minded people and people with different opinions can put their points across. Maybe someone has something to contribute to what the OP is talking about. Just because you don't doesn't meant that it shouldn't be discussed.

[Xotol]

(Original post by katyness)
Do you know what's funny? I have been using TSR for a little over 2 years now and I have seen so many religion threads. Especially those created by atheists.

I just have one little question though: what are you trying to achieve when you create threads like this? Are you expecting Christians to reply saying "yes, you are right and we're wrong. God doesn't exist" is that it? Because I can tell you that a true Christian wouldn't do that. Some people believe and some people don't can't we just leave this type of discussions in our minds?

Damn people...

You know what else is funny? You're in a religion forum, which means we're meant to discuss religion. You're in the wrong place if you have issues with discussing religion.

And the effort is not all that futile. Believe it or not, I know people that changed their religious beliefs based on a forum. Hell, the reason I started doubting my beliefs was because of another forum.

[katyness]

(Original post by Xotol)
You know what else is funny? You're in a religion forum, which means we're meant to discuss religion. You're in the wrong place if you have issues with discussing religion.

And the effort is not all that futile. Believe it or not, I know people that changed their religious beliefs based on a forum. Hell, the reason I started doubting my beliefs was because of another forum.

It says a lot about your faith

I don't have issues with it, I just wonder what their purpose is. "I'm an atheist, come join me on this non-believing side".... why exactly? Do you get a cookie from Satan?

[chickenonsteroids]

(Original post by katyness)
Do you get a cookie from Satan?

I'd prefer hot wings tbh

[LeeC]

(Original post by katyness)

I just have one little question though: what are you trying to achieve when you create threads like this?

Damn people...

Erm maybe he's trying to spark a debate because we are in the debate forum?

[katyness]

(Original post by chickenonsteroids)
I'd prefer hot wings tbh

LOL. Damn I ran out of reps!! I'm sure he'll provide them though

[yclicc]

(Original post by Greatest I am)
God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Omnipotent is defined in part as having power or authority without limits IOW, almighty.

Seems to me that God has a few limits.

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
He could not create a heaven without Satan.
He could not create Eden without evil in it.
He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.
He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

That's a long list...this could take a while....:

1: "He cannot reproduce true" He may not choose to...we have no evidence to suggest he couldn't.

2: "He cannot enjoy sex" Sex is created by God for humans to enjoy, and happens between humans. God doesn't need pleasure in this way (omnipotent, remember?), and if he did wouldn't need sex for it. If you are saying God doesn't want humans to enjoy sex either, thats a separate question, but see

Proverbs 5 May your fountain be blessed,
and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.

and yes, that does mean exacty what you think it means

3: He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross-species breeding...again, see (1). He didn't choose to, doesn't mean he couldn't.

4: See (3). The theology gets complicated, but Jesus is fully God and fully Man, not 50/50. He is omnipotent. He can do that remember?

5: "He could not create a heaven without Satan." Tricky, but we know he chose to create free will, which seems to extend to angels ergo Satan. He also acts to remove Satan from heaven, but that's another question.

6: "He could not create Eden without evil in it" Again, see (5) on free will.

7: "He cannot control wayward Demons and Devils". He can and does, see the many examples of demons being forced to obey Jesus in the New Testament.

8: "He cannot sin, although scripture says he does." The Ten Commandments don't apply to God, as they are part of a covenant between God and Mankind (or Humankind if you prefer). They are man's end of the bargain. Jesus obeys the 10 commandments when God becomes Man. The 10 commandments are also replaced by the new covenant under Jesus death, see Galatians if you're interested. Hard to say more unless you have some examples of God sinning...

9: "He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love." God doesn't need human adoration, as is mentioned in the Bible at several stages...I don't have the references to hand. He asks for it, but that doesn't mean he needs it.

10&11: "He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice." "He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed" You saved the toughest questions until last! Again though, as it is God himself who is "sacrificed" (judged on behalf of sinners is the purpose of it) there is no reason he shouldn't do it that way if he chooses. He has free will after all. It's not like he caused you harm personally by dying is it? "He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus" Very true, but if you don't trust the bridge you can't, and won't cross it. This is a simplistic analogy and I shall have to refer you to many of the good books available on this question.

Just because answers to questions don't immediately occur, don't assume they don't exist.

I hope this was helpful. Bitter experience leads me to assume you won't be convinced.

Edit: These answers all relate to the Christian God. I'm assuming from your questions he was the one you were referring to?

[LeeC]

(Original post by katyness)
It says a lot about your faith

I don't have issues with it, I just wonder what their purpose is. "I'm an atheist, come join me on this non-believing side".... why exactly? Do you get a cookie from Satan?

Yep, all atheists are devil worshippers, and we only do it for satanic cookies!

[katyness]

(Original post by LeeC)
Yep, all atheists are devil worshippers, and we only do it for satanic cookies!

Well no but you must have a purpose to deviate Christians from their beliefs. Maybe Satan made you a deal...

[LeeC]

(Original post by katyness)
Well no but you must have a purpose to deviate Christians from their beliefs. Maybe Satan made you a deal...

He did, we get cookies in return for being evil, like I just said.

[katyness]

(Original post by LeeC)
He did, we get cookies in return for being evil, like I just said.

Exactly

[Xotol]

(Original post by katyness)
It says a lot about your faith

What faith? The fact that I just happened to be born into the religion (like a huge proportion of other religious people are) does not constitute faith. Besides, if you are so engrossed in your faith that you do not look into the arguments for and against your religion, it's practically blind following.

I don't have issues with it, I just wonder what their purpose is. "I'm an atheist, come join me on this non-believing side".... why exactly? Do you get a cookie from Satan?

Well, I can't claim to speak for all atheists, but I don't debate for the sake of converting (and I certainly have never said 'come join me'). I like to make people think about their beliefs. I also like it because it takes my mind of work.

[katyness]

(Original post by Xotol)
What faith? The fact that I just happened to be born into the religion (like a huge proportion of other religious people are) does not constitute faith.

Fair enough.

Besides, if you are so engrossed in your faith that you do not look into the arguments for and against your religion, it's practically blind following.

Not really because if you truly believe and don't want your point of view to be affected then you just ignore it. But we have different ways of thinking so I'm just going to leave it.

Well, I can't claim to speak for all atheists, but I don't debate for the sake of converting (and I certainly have never said 'come join me'). I like to make people think about their beliefs. I also like it because it takes my mind of work.

It was a random situation -.-

[Ignoramus]

I'm confused as to how the OP actually knows most of the things he claims to about the Christian God. Maybe I've been missing something...