Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

B456 - Secondary School League Tables Bill 2012

Announcements Posted on
    • 17 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Oi, fools, you've not costed this bill
    • 47 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paperclip)
    Oi, fools, you've not costed this bill
    League tables are already budgeted for since they exist and this Bill just changes what they contain. Nice try, but you're looking desperate now.
    • 19 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    All league tables do is turn schools into exam factories where the education and long term future of the pupils is not considered. This represents everything wrong with education in Britain today and I'm glad we don't have school league tables in Scotland.
    • 17 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toronto353)
    League tables are already budgeted for since they exist and this Bill just changes what they contain. Nice try, but you're looking desperate now.
    Was the squatters rights bill costed? I provided ample evidence that it would increase costs.

    Was the referendum bill costed?

    Was the euthanasia bill costed? (Ignoring the difference between euthanasia and assisted suicide too...)

    You guys really are poor in your consistency and hypocrisy.
    • 47 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paperclip)
    Was the squatters rights bill costed? I provided ample evidence that it would increase costs.

    Was the referendum bill costed?

    Was the euthanasia bill costed? (Ignoring the difference between euthanasia and assisted suicide too...)

    You guys really are poor in your consistency and hypocrisy.
    As are you. You're happy to criticise a Bill for costings as well, but then fly off the handle when the Abandoned House Bill isn't costed. Once again, you either can't or won't read what I have put so let me make it a bit easier for you:

    I have other concerns and criticisms of the Abandoned House Bill bar the costings.

    Now either answer those criticisms or shut up and crawl back under whatever rock you came out of.
    • 17 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toronto353)
    As are you. You're happy to criticise a Bill for costings as well, but then fly off the handle when the Abandoned House Bill isn't costed. Once again, you either can't or won't read what I have put so let me make it a bit easier for you:

    I have other concerns and criticisms of the Abandoned House Bill bar the costings.

    Now either answer those criticisms or shut up and crawl back under whatever rock you came out of.
    I don't talk about costings on every bill, as mentioned, i happily ignored it on the bills i pointed out - euthanasia, referendum, actually, that bill is the only one i have ever mentioned costs.

    I'll happily answer those questions, if the right agree not to resort to some rubbish costings argument. This house is pointless if that argument is gonna be used every time something's happening that you don't like.
    • 47 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paperclip)
    I don't talk about costings on every bill, as mentioned, i happily ignored it on the bills i pointed out - euthanasia, referendum, actually, that bill is the only one i have ever mentioned costs.

    I'll happily answer those questions, if the right agree not to resort to some rubbish costings argument. This house is pointless if that argument is gonna be used every time something's happening that you don't like.
    So you're not going to answer them in that thread then. Costings arguments are not rubbish. I'm sorry that we don't live in a world with infinite money that the Left seem to live in. So now we've established that you either can't or won't answer them, go and have your tantrum somewhere else.
    • 17 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toronto353)
    So you're not going to answer them in that thread then. Costings arguments are not rubbish. I'm sorry that we don't live in a world with infinite money that the Left seem to live in. So now we've established that you either can't or won't answer them, go and have your tantrum somewhere else.
    Will do. I'll pop back tomorrow whilst you work out how far we're in deficit because the NHS is now providing euthanasia, the referendum, and every other bill that's not been costed.

    In reality, i'm only gonna pop back tomorrow to see metrobeans reply. Get with it, we've rejected the idea of a budget numerous times. If you wanna turn the house into some snoozefest, then i'll gladly leave.
    • 47 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paperclip)
    Will do. I'll pop back tomorrow whilst you work out how far we're in deficit because the NHS is now providing euthanasia, the referendum, and every other bill that's not been costed.

    In reality, i'm only gonna pop back tomorrow to see metrobeans reply. Get with it, we've rejected the idea of a budget numerous times. If you wanna turn the house into some snoozefest, then i'll gladly leave.
    Bye then. We've had one budget I believe in this House's lifetime so we've not rejected the idea. Maybe in your world we have, but this House hasn't yet.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    For some things its almost impossible to cost. Take housing benefit from the Welfare Act 2012; anyone know how much that will cost us? Because the Libertarians didn't.

    We have to accept that we won't be able to cost every Bill using information available to us. I'm sure George Osborne could, but we don't have all the relevant statistics.
    • 47 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by stanlas)
    For some things its almost impossible to cost. Take housing benefit from the Welfare Act 2012; anyone know how much that will cost us? Because the Libertarians didn't.

    We have to accept that we won't be able to cost every Bill using information available to us. I'm sure George Osborne could, but we don't have all the relevant statistics.
    Nope, but I think that if you're using £78 billion worth of taxpayers money, then you need to begin saying how you're going to make that money. I accept that, but on big projects, some effort should at least be made. If not, then the authors should hold their hands up and say, we can't cost this at all, so that we can move on past that debate and remove that issue altogether.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toronto353)
    Bye then. We've had one budget I believe in this House's lifetime so we've not rejected the idea. Maybe in your world we have, but this House hasn't yet.
    Toronto, stop being petty. The idea of a budget is unworkable. Not all of us have the benefit of economics degrees from Cambridge or even having done economics A Level.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    Toronto, stop being petty. The idea of a budget is unworkable. Not all of us have the benefit of economics degrees from Cambridge or even having done economics A Level.
    Well let's be honest, nor do those who produce the budget in RL!
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jesusandtequila)
    Well let's be honest, nor do those who produce the budget in RL!
    Maybe not. My stance on the question of a budget is that it is alien to the idea that this House is for everyone regardless of their ability. The more complex we make the realism - the introduction of fiscal realism, for instance - the more frightening and difficult the place becomes. With all due respect to your training, I don't really want to have to deal with it in me leisure time. I'm not an economist, heck I'm not even a willing mental arithmetician, so the idea that I (or people like me) would want to sit here with an economics textbook handy just to comprehend bills is not really the name of the game. I genuinely dread reading Libertarian bills, not because of their political stance (though I frequently disagree) but because of their tendency to economic complexity which is beyond me. I don't want to see the whole House going the same way.
    • 47 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    Toronto, stop being petty. The idea of a budget is unworkable. Not all of us have the benefit of economics degrees from Cambridge or even having done economics A Level.
    Well as much as I don't like the GRA, since it's been passed quite recently, our financial position should be quite close to that of the RL UK. You can easily look at the costings of the current Bills and factor those in so it shouldn't be too difficult. Anyone should be able to debate some aspects if it's done correctly. The idea of a budget is not as unworkable as you make out.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toronto353)
    Well as much as I don't like the GRA, since it's been passed quite recently, our financial position should be quite close to that of the RL UK. You can easily look at the costings of the current Bills and factor those in so it shouldn't be too difficult. Anyone should be able to debate some aspects if it's done correctly. The idea of a budget is not as unworkable as you make out.
    Alright, fine, you have your costings but the minute economics becomes a basic requirement of being part of this House, I'll go. And, to be honest, I'm quite sure I won't be alone.
    • 47 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    Alright, fine, you have your costings but the minute economics becomes a basic requirement of being part of this House, I'll go. And, to be honest, I'm quite sure I won't be alone.
    If I were producing the budget, I would structure it to have a summary of the various aspects of the budget and then (in a spoiler), the economics for those who want it. How does that really exclude anyone?
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toronto353)
    If I were producing the budget, I would structure it to have a summary of the various aspects of the budget and then (in a spoiler), the economics for those who want it. How does that really exclude anyone?
    I explained well enough in one of the other threads and I've made my opposition to budgets and economic realism plain enough in the past. Some of us, me included, haven't done maths since the time we sat our GCSE / standard level exams. In many ways, I see maths as an extremely weak point in my knowledge and it's genuinely a point of timidity and uncertainty. The exclusion for those who are mathematically illiterate or at least lacking in fluency will never be understood by those who do. I've said enough on this subject and will stand against those insisting on budgets.
    • 47 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    I explained well enough in one of the other threads and I've made my opposition to budgets and economic realism plain enough in the past. Some of us, me included, haven't done maths since the time we sat our GCSE / standard level exams. In many ways, I see maths as an extremely weak point in my knowledge and it's genuinely a point of timidity and uncertainty. The exclusion for those who are mathematically illiterate or at least lacking in fluency will never be understood by those who do. I've said enough on this subject and will stand against those insisting on budgets.
    But you wouldn't need a lot of maths if the budget was explained in non-mathematical and economic terms and mathematical and economic terms in spoilers. I don't see why you have problem with that.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by toronto353)
    But you wouldn't need a lot of maths if the budget was explained in non-mathematical and economic terms and mathematical and economic terms in spoilers. I don't see why you have problem with that.
    Because it comes down to trust and the ability to make a reasoned judgement based on the evidence before me. If I cannot read it, then I cannot make those judgements and I am cast out of the game. The only person I would trust to be reasonable in presenting the information in layman's terms is jesusandtequila and he's not going to want to do it for every single bill. You haven't yet convinced me of the need of a budget other than your petty attempts to get one over on paperclip.
Updated: June 8, 2012
New on TSR

So how did you do?

Come into the GCSE forum to share your grades

Article updates
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.