[Tycho]

(Original post by TheHansa)
Religion is growing so if anything evolution will make atheism disappear.

Religion isn't growing, it's a myth. The population is growing, and hence there are more people within religions than there were before, but these people represent an ever smaller share of the population than before.

This argument also fails to realise that even those who do consider themselves to be religious are no longer following their religious scripture as did people of old. There are very few religious people who consider themselves anything but "moderate" with their views these days.

This is backed up by looking at history. You'll notice a downward trend of support for religion and a downward trend of the power of religion within society. No longer does religion pull the political strings. If it were growing then these trends would not be visible.

[Jpatch]

(Original post by Evangelica)
I don't think so. In 2010 there were about 2.3 billion 'Christians' in the world which was 300 million up from 2005 and I think it's estimated that by 2050 there will be 3 billion. I don't put the word in inverted commas to be rude, it's just that I think a lot of people call themselves Christians when their beliefs and actions don't correlate with what they're claiming to be or they don't fully understand it. I honestly can remember a girl in my Maths class in sixth form saying "I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in God"

Attachment 152811

Apparently Islam is growing too. To be honest I think we as humans will always believe in something greater than ourselves even if the current religions fade away - I'm sure they'd just be replaced by new ones. There's always going to be a degree of uncertainty and that uncertainty allows people to create faith / belief.

True- however it would be interesting to see if that keeps up with the growth in population. I would agree with you that a large number of christians are so called 'cultural christians' or people who claim to believe in it just to hedge their bets (which is a bit pointless if you believe in an all-knowing God). Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion at the moment with atheism the fastest growing in the western world but I don't know where Christianity fits into the growth spectrum

[Evangelica]

(Original post by Jpatch)
True- however it would be interesting to see if that keeps up with the growth in population. I would agree with you that a large number of christians are so called 'cultural christians' or people who claim to believe in it just to hedge their bets (which is a bit pointless if you believe in an all-knowing God). Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion at the moment with atheism the fastest growing in the western world but I don't know where Christianity fits into the growth spectrum

Mmm, to be honest even if Christianity and even Islam fade out, I would not be surprised if some new religion took their place, probably one concurrent with the laws of science in order to make it more attractive to everyone (I've no idea how this would work). Even now new religions seem to be emerging. I still don't quite get what Scientology is yet, only that I don't trust it.

[Dreamweaver]

(Original post by DH-Biker)
Sorry, but imprisoning a man and slandering another based upon their scientific facts is akin to saying it doesn't exist.

That's just two examples; people in the world will kill you if you say that you don't believe in their Religion, ergo they must surely not believe in Science as in many cases science provides a direct counter to Religious statements. Not that they are two opposing sides, but as I said earlier, science can no more succeed in an area with strong religious ties then a religious fundamentalist will be listened to in a Scientific Academy for banging on about a man on a cloud bumbling around for six days and creating every atom we see around us...

Whilst, as another user pointed out, they are not always so divided; many top scientists believe in some form of organised Religion and many other scientists also believe that, through their findings, it is too much of a coincidence to have just happened so there must be a higher power behind it.

However, in most cases science and religion are non-compatible and therefore one must, in many cases, step over the other.

I disagree with that. It's because of religion the fundamentals of science have been established. And as you mentioned, many top scientists are also deeply religious. I believe science and belief in God can coexist in harmony.

(Original post by Tycho)
I'm afraid many scientific breakthroughs are indeed rendering God obsolete. The more science disproves the Bible the more metaphorical Christians seem to declare their holy book to be. It comes to the point where even they must seriously question the point of a book which is wrong in just about every respect - thus rendering God obsolete.

Unscientific things in the Bible =/= no God. There are many religions which believe in the concept of God. If one of these happens to be incorrect it doesn't necessarily mean that God doesn't exists.

[Politricks]

(Original post by Hylean)
Evolution, however, will not do anything to a belief in a deity and unless science can actually disprove one, the belief will survive.

You're right, evolution certainly will not do anything disprove the Abrahamic God, or any other God/s, much like it cannot disprove Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the flying spaghetti monster.

[sammy-lou]

People always need something to believe in, and someone 'higher' to appeal to. Evolution cannot cover both of those bases, or even either of them. There will always be religion. Whether it's the religions we have today is another matter.

[Politricks]

(Original post by TheHansa)
Religion is growing so if anything evolution will make atheism disappear.

Evolution will make atheism disappear because religion is growing?

- funniest thing I've heard all day, my day has only just begun, where oh where is the logic in what you have just said?

Religion's influence is certainly growing, which is why Church attendance is dropping, science textbooks teach evolution rather than biblical creationism, and a growing number of people are renouncing Christianity, the only thing about religion that is growing at a significant rate are the birth rates of Christian and Muslim families.

[Tycho]

(Original post by Dreamweaver)
I disagree with that. It's because of religion the fundamentals of science have been established. And as you mentioned, many top scientists are also deeply religious. I believe science and belief in God can coexist in harmony.

No it isn't. It's in spite of religion that the fundamentals of science have been established. Scientists of old were persecuted by religious zealots in a society which was fundamental with it's religious views. Despite this, the breakthrough of science was inevitable because it provided, by far, the most logical explanations for what we observe.

It's natural human instinct to want to feel like you exist for a reason, but as time progresses more and more people are starting to realise that this is not necessarily the case. People don't need to exist for a reason. Nothing needs to exist anywhere in the universe. That it does is a random occurrence of science - not the will of a God.

[mmmpie]

(Original post by Evangelica)
Mmm, to be honest even if Christianity and even Islam fade out, I would not be surprised if some new religion took their place, probably one concurrent with the laws of science in order to make it more attractive to everyone (I've no idea how this would work). Even now new religions seem to be emerging. I still don't quite get what Scientology is yet, only that I don't trust it.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a growth of deism.

[Dreamweaver]

(Original post by Tycho)
No it isn't. It's in spite of religion that the fundamentals of science have been established. Scientists of old were persecuted by religious zealots in a society which was fundamental with it's religious views. Despite this, the breakthrough of science was inevitable because it provided, by far, the most logical explanations for what we observe.

It's natural human instinct to want to feel like you exist for a reason, but as time progresses more and more people are starting to realise that this is not necessarily the case. People don't need to exist for a reason. Nothing needs to exist anywhere in the universe. That it does is a random occurrence of science - not the will of a God.

The fundamentals of science were established during the Golden Age of Islam. What you are talking about is the scientific revolution which occurred much later on where religious powers persecuted scientists as their discoveries could potentially undermine their concept of religion.

Our existence is a result of a random occurence of science? Let me tell you what science has to say about that:

Entropy tells us that nature tends to move from order to disorder in an uncontrolled system. For example, if pile of bricks were dropped from a lorry, it is more probable that they would form a scattered mess on the floor rather than a wall. Science tells us that it is more probable that the creation of the universe was controlled.

[TheHansa]

(Original post by Tycho)
Religion isn't growing, it's a myth. The population is growing, and hence there are more people within religions than there were before, but these people represent an ever smaller share of the population than before.

This argument also fails to realise that even those who do consider themselves to be religious are no longer following their religious scripture as did people of old. There are very few religious people who consider themselves anything but "moderate" with their views these days.

This is backed up by looking at history. You'll notice a downward trend of support for religion and a downward trend of the power of religion within society. No longer does religion pull the political strings. If it were growing then these trends would not be visible.

Keep living in your eurocentric bubble, middle easterners, south asians, south americans and africans all disagree.

[TheHansa]

(Original post by Politricks)
Evolution will make atheism disappear because religion is growing?

- funniest thing I've heard all day, my day has only just begun, where oh where is the logic in what you have just said?

Religion's influence is certainly growing, which is why Church attendance is dropping, science textbooks teach evolution rather than biblical creationism, and a growing number of people are renouncing Christianity, the only thing about religion that is growing at a significant rate are the birth rates of Christian and Muslim families.

Religion is gaining more strength, all of the abrahamic religions are growing through both birthrates and conversion and the birthrates of the most religious people within these communities are higher than the birthrates of the less religious.

For an atheist you have an awful understanding of evolution, not that you can sensibly argue that evolution will make religion extinct.

[Tycho]

(Original post by Dreamweaver)
Our existence is a result of a random occurence of science? Let me tell you what science has to say about that:

Entropy tells us that nature tends to move from order to disorder in an uncontrolled system. For example, if pile of bricks were dropped from a lorry, it is more probable that they would form a scattered mess on the floor rather than a wall. Science tells us that it is more probable that the creation of the universe was controlled.

You misunderstand entropy. It is indeed observed, and human existence does not undermine it, nor does it suggest entropy is not happening. It doesn't support the idea that the creation of the universe was controlled, as any creator would aim for perfection with everything they create, rather than a scattered bundle of bricks on the floor as you suggest.

Hawking looks at this in quite some detail in his books. I'd suggest reading it if it's of interest to you - even if you don't agree with that viewpoint.

That entropy can create humans and an ideal planet like Earth is that rare occurrence I was referring to. Yes in most instances those bricks falling from a lorry will invariably end up as a random mess on the floor, but in a very small number of cases they may end up as a wall. This rare occurrence is the same rare occurrence in nature that sees the existence of humans. That almost every other planet we have observed is far less than ideal for human's to prosper on is evidence of all the other instances where those bricks have fallen and created a mess on the floor.

[Robbob16]

I think it's arrogant to believe humans can explain everything. We're a small proportion of the planet who take it as we own it because other animals don't have a measurable amount of intelligence, so we assume they're all beneath us.


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[Tycho]

(Original post by TheHansa)
Keep living in your eurocentric bubble, middle easterners, south asians, south americans and africans all disagree.

Which particular part do you disagree with?

[Politricks]

(Original post by TheHansa)
Outside europe religion is gaining more strength, all of the abrahamic religions are growing

Outside Europe where people are more superstitious and less informed about science, evolution in particular.

(Original post by TheHansa)
the birthrates of the most religious people within these communities are higher than the birthrates of the less religious.

There's your answer as to why there are a growing number of people following a religion worldwide, because they were born into it.

[Tycho]

(Original post by Robbob16)
I think it's arrogant to believe humans can explain everything. We're a small proportion of the planet who take it as we own it because other animals don't have a measurable amount of intelligence, so we assume they're all beneath us.

I don't see that humans are trying to suggest they can explain everything? To suggest that it's impossible to explain everything is a different matter entirely. I believe it is possible to explain everything, but whether we'll ever get there or not is highly disputable.

I'm not sure what your second point is trying to say? Why shouldn't humans inhabit as much of the Earth as they please? I would agree that there needs to be more respect for wildlife and nature, but I think the growing trend is one of respect.

[TheHansa]

(Original post by Tycho)
Which particular part do you disagree with?

People are becoming more religious in all of these areas and the birthrates of all of the people from these areas are high, whereas atheists have low birthrates, so if anyone actually understands the concept of the theory of evolution and assuming it is possible to treat religion as if it is a base sequence there is a selective pressure for religion not against it.

[mmmpie]

(Original post by Dreamweaver)
The fundamentals of science were established during the Golden Age of Islam. What you are talking about is the scientific revolution which occurred much later on where religious powers persecuted scientists as their discoveries could potentially undermine their concept of religion.

Our existence is a result of a random occurence of science? Let me tell you what science has to say about that:

Entropy tells us that nature tends to move from order to disorder in an uncontrolled system. For example, if pile of bricks were dropped from a lorry, it is more probable that they would form a scattered mess on the floor rather than a wall. Science tells us that it is more probable that the creation of the universe was controlled.

I haven't heard the second law of thermodynamics referenced for ages!

The surface of the earth is not a thermodynamically closed system. Therefore the second law of thermodynamics doesn't have anything to say on the matter - entropy can decrease on the surface of the Earth.

Your pile of bricks is a false analogy btw - bricks do not spontaneously move nor alter each other, organic molecules in solution do.

[Tycho]

(Original post by Politricks)
Outside Europe where people are more superstitious and less informed about science, evolution in particular.

This is true but I don't really believe in the accuracy of the original point anyway. If the Arab Spring has taught us anything it's that people - irrespective of religion - don't want to have their future's dictated to them. They want freedom of speech and democracy. They want variety of opinions and free media. None of these things are particularly consistent with the original teachings of these religions; where tolerance for other ideas was very much considered an offence for which you could be executed.

So there is change throughout the world. Perhaps it's more gradual in the middle eastern countries, but even there, the grip of religion on people's lives' is diminishing.