Can non-believers get into heaven?
Discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues concerning Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion.
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?What a cruel, unjust god, since he made us that way in the first place. I wouldn't worship him even if he existed.(Original post by I likewinegums)
No. If you don't believe in Jesus (God) then NO you will not enter into Heaven. Fact.
You may well be the most perfect human being on the planet but without believing in Jesus and following his commandments and avoiding /ask for repentance of sin, the eternal destination for such a person is hell.
No matter how good we think we are here on earth, our sin is like filthy rags to the LORD, asking forgiveness and repenting sincerely is a good start, -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?some positions.
(some of this language sounds a little preachy on reflection, but that's mainly because I've got an exam in this in about 3 hours, so this is half response, half essay-plan with quotes!)
- Most theologians arguing that non-believers or non-[specific religion] believers are doing so on a limited selection of material. True, there's a lot of individual verses from the Bible at least (mostly the Old Testament) that when grouped together seem to say it's believe-or-be-damned. But there are plenty of passages that are sufficiently different ('fathers house has many rooms' is a good one) suggesting that a real biblical reading consistent with all of them will be somehow a salvation inclusive of everyone.
- Catholics feel salvation is much more to do with action than specific belief - sort of. Vatican II affirms that Christ can be present 'anonymously' in some people. What this means is related to how they understand man & God. Briefly, they say good behaviour is related to God via grace - so when anyone does anything good, they're doing so because of God's grace even if they consider themselves an atheist, and vice versa when anyone does something bad, even if they consider themselves a Christian. This seems objectionable probably, but it's really just a metaphysics of action, if you like. Free Will and Choice etc exist, and simultaneously goodness depends on grace. Where was I going with this? Right. If you affirm beliefs about Gods existence and creative capabilities etc, you can say that anyone who does good things is fine by God. So if you're not an ********, Catholics are probably fine with you.
- Some people take a more... problematic route that I don't really agree with. They start by saying that if God exists, and you knew that he existed in the sense of full knowledge of Him, then you would become a Christian. This is partially a Pascal-like-thing - if you knew there was a hell, you'd be motivated to become a Christian, likewise if you know there's a God etc. On Earth this doesn't make much of a difference because no one can know God to that degree (that's why Faith is a thing - it's belief with insufficient evidence). At death however, everyone comes to know God - so people who believed and lived good lives say 'thank you' or something; people who believed and led bad lives apologise and repent for the bad lives; people who didn't believe and lived good lives apologise for not believing, and repent for not believing. It's thought that it would be irrational for someone to reject God if they full know him - which, if he is real, it probably is, right? Anyway, someone who insisted on rejecting God after dying is plausibly considered irrational to the point of a mental handicap, and forgiven the same way, say, very small children are.
All of this revolves exclusively around ways that there could be a God AND an atheist can be saved. It doesn't constitute anything like a proof for anything, but it suggests ways the existence of God doesn't demand atheists be damned etc. I don't know enough about any other religions than Christianity, so I can't expand further. Anyway.. -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?Well now, see I'm a believer, but some of my family (like my dad) aren't. When I die, if I'm allowed into heaven (which I'd like to think I would be), it just wouldn't be paradise for me without my nearest and dearest allowed in. Therefore by not letting my dad in (because he doesn't believe), that would ruin my heaven.
Paradox much? lol -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?The Bible is quite clear - only those who accept Jesus' sacrifice and ask for God's forgiveness for their sins will go to heaven. That means that anyone who doesn't believe in God can't fall into that category.
However, God is infinitely more wise than any human, and our conceptions of his justice/love/wishes can only ever fall short of his true nature. So it may well be that God chooses others to join him in heaven - we don't know. God is the only true judge, and only his judgement matters. -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?I've always thought it's a bit strange that someone who believes in God can actually be quite a mean person, whereas an atheist can be nicer, yet the religious person will get into heaven simply for "believing", and a lot of the time, believing out of fear, or believing due to being weak minded. God is then ultimately turning down good, strong minded people, simply for questioning his existence.
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?God is not cruel and unjust.(Original post by Aethra)
What a cruel, unjust god, since he made us that way in the first place. I wouldn't worship him even if he existed.
People send themselves to hell through acts of cruelty, sin, being unrepentant,
God sends nobody to hell, people have a choice to make and it is that choice that determines their eternal destination.
Hell was not originally created for humanity, it was designed for Satan and his demons, When Adam & Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, sin entered into the world and humanity, it is down to that particular person who they decide to follow here on earth, God or the devil, that person inevitably chooses their own fate, Heaven or hell -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?I can see where you're coming from with this. But why not think of it this way (just to see it from a different viewpoint - I am not saying that you are wrong.)(Original post by Snorrrlax)
I've always thought it's a bit strange that someone who believes in God can actually be quite a mean person, whereas an atheist can be nicer, yet the religious person will get into heaven simply for "believing", and a lot of the time, believing out of fear, or believing due to being weak minded. God is then ultimately turning down good, strong minded people, simply for questioning his existence.
God created the world, and all its people. All he asks of us during our lives is that we try to live by his rules. But we are all flawed, and all fail. So God sent Jesus to die for us, to take the punishment that all humans deserve for sinning. Jesus is the son of God, and also God made human - his death meant that God allowed part of himself to be killed (before being raised back to life). This means that the price is paid for us, and we can still be with him, even though we are imperfect and he is perfect. All you have to do, is to accept that sacrifice - to apologise to God for sinning, and thank him that he sent Jesus to die for us. When people reject God, then they are rejecting his love, and therefore don't accept Jesus' sacrifice. This means that they have not had the punishment for sin paid for them - so have to pay it themselves.
This is the (standard) Christian viewpoint.
In my own opinion (which may or may not be orthodox, I've never really discussed it with other Christians), doubt it absolutely fine. The Bible is full of stories of people losing their faith or doubting their convictions, and they are still made right with God. But those who go beyond doubt in God's existence and reject him cannot be saved.
As for your first comment, about their being mean Christians and nice atheists - that is, of course, true. But Christians should never be mean - we should try to follow the Bible's teachings, which means loving our fellow men, whatever our differences. But in terms of getting into heaven, Christianity teaches that it isn't about being a good or bad person - it's about accepting Jesus' sacrifice. -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?(Original post by PinkMobilePhone)
Well now, see I'm a believer, but some of my family (like my dad) aren't. When I die, if I'm allowed into heaven (which I'd like to think I would be), it just wouldn't be paradise for me without my nearest and dearest allowed in. Therefore by not letting my dad in (because he doesn't believe), that would ruin my heaven.
Paradox much? lol
You call yourself a Christian but are you really? do you
. Repent of your sins and ask Gods forgiveness regularly?
. Find yourself being sexually corrupt, for example fornication??
. Forgive people who have wronged you?
. Believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is real and that he died on the cross for your sins and is your savior?
. Mock Jesus, make fun of his name?
the list goes on, anybody can call themselves a Christian but it takes more than just words, I'm not saying if you do any of the above in that list then you are not a Christian but you must ask repentance of your sins.
You will not remember your Dad in Heaven if he is in hell, that would make you sad and there is no sadness is hell. I hope he turns to Jesus during his time on earth.
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?Would people go to hell simply for not believing in him, even though they were good?(Original post by I likewinegums)
God is not cruel and unjust.
People send themselves to hell through acts of cruelty, sin, being unrepentant,
God sends nobody to hell, people have a choice to make and it is that choice that determines their eternal destination.
Hell was not originally created for humanity, it was designed for Satan and his demons, When Adam & Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden, sin entered into the world and humanity, it is down to that particular person who they decide to follow here on earth, God or the devil, that person inevitably chooses their own fate, Heaven or hell -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?You won't even remember your loved ones who went to hell? I find that disgusting.(Original post by I likewinegums)
You call yourself a Christian but are you really? do you
. Repent of your sins and ask Gods forgiveness regularly?
. Find yourself being sexually corrupt, for example fornication??
. Forgive people who have wronged you?
. Believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is real and that he died on the cross for your sins and is your savior?
. Mock Jesus, make fun of his name?
the list goes on, anybody can call themselves a Christian but it takes more than just words, I'm not saying if you do any of the above in that list then you are not a Christian but you must ask repentance of your sins.
You will not remember your Dad in Heaven if he is in hell, that would make you sad and there is no sadness is hell. I hope he turns to Jesus during his time on earth.
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?A brilliant piece of advice Bro, However I don't understand the bit highlighted in red, anybody still alive and breathing on earth today, no matter how bad they are, no matter anything can still be saved and enter into Heaven so long as they get right with God.(Original post by Feefifofum)
I can see where you're coming from with this. But why not think of it this way (just to see it from a different viewpoint - I am not saying that you are wrong.)
God created the world, and all its people. All he asks of us during our lives is that we try to live by his rules. But we are all flawed, and all fail. So God sent Jesus to die for us, to take the punishment that all humans deserve for sinning. Jesus is the son of God, and also God made human - his death meant that God allowed part of himself to be killed (before being raised back to life). This means that the price is paid for us, and we can still be with him, even though we are imperfect and he is perfect. All you have to do, is to accept that sacrifice - to apologise to God for sinning, and thank him that he sent Jesus to die for us. When people reject God, then they are rejecting his love, and therefore don't accept Jesus' sacrifice. This means that they have not had the punishment for sin paid for them - so have to pay it themselves.
This is the (standard) Christian viewpoint.
In my own opinion (which may or may not be orthodox, I've never really discussed it with other Christians), doubt it absolutely fine. The Bible is full of stories of people losing their faith or doubting their convictions, and they are still made right with God. But those who go beyond doubt in God's existence and reject him cannot be saved.
As for your first comment, about their being mean Christians and nice atheists - that is, of course, true. But Christians should never be mean - we should try to follow the Bible's teachings, which means loving our fellow men, whatever our differences. But in terms of getting into heaven, Christianity teaches that it isn't about being a good or bad person - it's about accepting Jesus' sacrifice.
But as for the rest of it, great advice.
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?That's not based on Scripture though, that's that particular user's interpretation.(Original post by Aethra)
You won't even remember your loved ones who went to hell? I find that disgusting.
My (again personal) belief is that being in the presence of God will bring so much happiness that the sadness will be outweighed, but that doesn't mean we will forget others who are not in heaven. -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?So i then have to chill in hell with hitler and the likes? or do they get into heaven cos they said sorry?(Original post by I likewinegums)
No. If you don't believe in Jesus (God) then NO you will not enter into Heaven. Fact.
You may well be the most perfect human being on the planet but without believing in Jesus and following his commandments and avoiding /ask for repentance of sin, the eternal destination for such a person is hell.
No matter how good we think we are here on earth, our sin is like filthy rags to the LORD, asking forgiveness and repenting sincerely is a good start,
Surely this ruins heaven. The genuine good people who devote their life to god and charities and good causes etc then have to spend an etnerity with mass murders and rapists who have said they are sorry?
On the flip side Hell must be full of good people who don't believe and bad people who haven't said sorry. SO both are full of good and bad people?
Does this mean that heaven and hell are effectively the same except one has air con and the other doesn't -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?Yes. What other people perceive to be good in their own eyes from an earthly point of view doesn't reflect how God see's that person, in God's eyes this ''perfect'' worldly human deeds is sin as filthy as rags without having asked forgiveness,(Original post by Aethra)
Would people go to hell simply for not believing in him, even though they were good? -
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Re: Can non-believers get into heaven?So the knowledge that our parents, siblings, spouses, children etc. are all being hideously tortured for ever and ever and ever and there is literally nothing, nothing at all we can do about it might not be a bit of a dampener in heaven?(Original post by Feefifofum)
That's not based on Scripture though, that's that particular user's interpretation.
My (again personal) belief is that being in the presence of God will bring so much happiness that the sadness will be outweighed, but that doesn't mean we will forget others who are not in heaven.
