[Helliconia]

Hi all, I'm new here and I'm not sure if this warrants a thread of it's own, but i have some questions regarding Access to HE courses that i can't seem to find the answers to online. If anyone can help i will be most grateful.

I am hoping to start a science based access course this september, and have a college relatively close to me that is doing one. However, i can find no information as to if it actually costs anything to do the course or not, so if someone could clear that up for me then that would be cool.

Also, the college says the course is 'full time' and 'during the daytime', so presumably that means I will not be able to work full time whilst on the course? How then, as a single man nearing 30 am i to support myself? Are there grants available to supplement a part time job?

The university that is doing the degree i am eventually hoping to do, say that GCSE mathematics at C or better is also required, which i do not have. Does the access course cover this or will i need to do a separate course? (which i really hope not considering the nearest GCSE maths courses are far away, and i simply cannot afford to travel there and back all the time, plus the only ones i can find cost money to enroll on and only offer funding to under 24s).

Also, the college say i am to supply a 'suitable academic reference'. I presume by this they mean an old teacher or something? We'll its been over 10 years since i was at school; am i meant to phone them up and see if anyone remembers me? lol I dont even think any of my old teachers work there anymore anyway. Anyone else had to provide an academic reference at all?

And lastly, what are my chances of entering a good university off the back of one of these courses? The reason i ask is because i cannot and do not want to move to go to university. This leaves me with only two choices (only one doing the exact course i want to do), and both are heavily oversubscribed with applicants, and both within the top 25 universities in the country. I am really determined to do well if i should do this access course, but realistically what are my chances of getting into a top uni? Obviously the entry requirements are slightly different for mature students but are you competing with young students for the same places? Or do they set aside a number of places for mature students which arent as oversubscribed? Is the whole process as hard, and are they as demanding as they are with the younger students?

Anyway, if you have taken the time to read this then i thank you, and if you can help me out with any of those queries then i will doubly thank you.

[evening sunrise]

(Original post by Helliconia)
Hi all, I'm new here and I'm not sure if this warrants a thread of it's own, but i have some questions regarding Access to HE courses that i can't seem to find the answers to online. If anyone can help i will be most grateful.

I am hoping to start a science based access course this september, and have a college relatively close to me that is doing one. However, i can find no information as to if it actually costs anything to do the course or not, so if someone could clear that up for me then that would be cool.

Also, the college says the course is 'full time' and 'during the daytime', so presumably that means I will not be able to work full time whilst on the course? How then, as a single man nearing 30 am i to support myself? Are there grants available to supplement a part time job?

The university that is doing the degree i am eventually hoping to do, say that GCSE mathematics at C or better is also required, which i do not have. Does the access course cover this or will i need to do a separate course? (which i really hope not considering the nearest GCSE maths courses are far away, and i simply cannot afford to travel there and back all the time, plus the only ones i can find cost money to enroll on and only offer funding to under 24s).

Also, the college say i am to supply a 'suitable academic reference'. I presume by this they mean an old teacher or something? We'll its been over 10 years since i was at school; am i meant to phone them up and see if anyone remembers me? lol I dont even think any of my old teachers work there anymore anyway. Anyone else had to provide an academic reference at all?

And lastly, what are my chances of entering a good university off the back of one of these courses? The reason i ask is because i cannot and do not want to move to go to university. This leaves me with only two choices (only one doing the exact course i want to do), and both are heavily oversubscribed with applicants, and both within the top 25 universities in the country. I am really determined to do well if i should do this access course, but realistically what are my chances of getting into a top uni? Obviously the entry requirements are slightly different for mature students but are you competing with young students for the same places? Or do they set aside a number of places for mature students which arent as oversubscribed? Is the whole process as hard, and are they as demanding as they are with the younger students?

Anyway, if you have taken the time to read this then i thank you, and if you can help me out with any of those queries then i will doubly thank you.

Taking your key points individually

Funding

As I understand it, there are other recent threads on exactly the same topic, you have to pay for the Access course if you already have level 3 qualifications, in the form of BTEC l3, A levels and similar, otherwise it is free.

There is no maintenance grant to assist with living costs the student has to support themselves. When you actually go to uni you will of course get funding if your residency, nationality meet the criteria, and you do not already have a degree and have not received student finance before. If you have studied at that level before but not finished, your entitlement to a fee loans is reduced in accordance with the years studied before.


Back to Access and L2.


The courses vary, considerably, most seem to offer L2 (GCSE equivalents) for maths and English, but whether these are accepted by a university can vary, hence you have to speak directly to the universities you intend to apply to. You cannot claim to have GCSE afterwards when applying for jobs. If you want to actually have GCSE you need to take the GCSE course/exams. Some access courses seem to offer GCSE along side, these seem less common though. Likewise an Access course, even though level 3, does not permit you to claim you have A levels. Obvious it may seem, but I have seen a few who did not realise this.

Reference requirement.

I find the requirement to be rather naff, someone of your age is seeking to do something new much later in life, whether you were or where not a good or committed student 10 years ago is irrelevant, 10 years may as well be 50.
Now all our universities accepted references for us that were non academic, in my case my employer and my wife's case the head of the charity she was on the committee of. If that is good enough for universities it should be dam good enough for a college offering Access. In our case, even with recent medical advances, I doubt many, if any, of our teachers are still alive.

Hopefully a few folks will reply to this thread, make sure you understand the context, some students doing or applying for Access are as young as 19, hence 20 when they start in September and then 21; hence mature students when they start uni is 2013 and hence an academic reference for an access course is not unreasonable and easy to obtain, you need to know the answers from students who are late 20s or older.

Universities Accepting.

Students are being made offers at the higher ranked universities based upon doing Access, but some students have experienced difficulty obtaining offers, especially from higher ranked universities. You need to speak to each uni and see if they accept the access course from the college you are going to attend for the subject you want to study, you should also ask what their typical conditional offer is for someone coming via Access, ask how many offers they made to students coming via access in the last 2 years.
Be aware that if students apply and do not receive offers, this is often interpreted as the uni's do not like Access students for that course, whilst this might be the case, (hence check upfront as suggested above) it could also simply be the case that the overall "package" tabled by a student, in terms of academic background, career background, extracurricular, and PS in general, did not cut it against the competition from other students. The mature student is not entitled to any special prioritorisation over a 17/18 yo applying when the applications are evaluated competitively, anymore than a 17/18 is because they are coming via the normal route. As a mature student, the unis do consider different factors, that is the only concession to which we are entitled and I believe that to be the right approach.

For mature students Access is the optimal route for certain types of courses that is for sure, especially vocational ones. About 6000 students start degrees each year in the professions aligned to heath care (2500), social sciences (2500) and humanities (1000) categories, after studying Access, about 300 start physical science degrees and about 500 start mathematical sciences including computing after studying Access. I am not sure how the numbers of applications made maps, as those arethe figures for mature students receiving offers, that they subsequently meet and hence actually start their degree.

Popping back momentarily to funding.

Other alternatives are:

Doing the OU for a year, 120 credits L1. This can be done by someone working full time, as there is no need to study during the day time, it will be effing hard work, but do able, it is more expensive than Access but you can get a tuition loan and if you have full entitlement you will have enough funding left to do a full three year degree afterwards. You will study maths, physics, biology earth science and Chemistry, with greater breadth and to a higher level than Access can cover. Again you need to check whether you will need GCSE maths and or English along side these.

We did not do Access, we tabled our OU credits, careers, extracurriculars etc etc, there are other students who have done or are doing the same. We both already had GCE O levels in mathematics and english language.

My offers were from Newcastle, Nottingham, Durham, York, and Sheffield.
My wife's offers were from Newcastle, York, Northumbria, she was rejected by Nottingham and she withdrew her application from Sheffield Hallam when she realised she wanted the breadth of Environmental Science with a focus on conservation, rather than an actual conservation degree.

Good luck

[Beebumble]

Just to add on to what evening Evening Sunrise said.

You can (or at least used to the lines are a bit blurred wit this) get away with paying only the concession fee if you're on income support or JSA.

You can do a part time course which is over 2 years instead of 1 and means you can work full time along side see if your local college accept that.

People on my course are going to uni's including Oxford,Cambridge, LSE,York and a few other really good universities that I can't think of now. So it's definitely accepted.The only places that people have had trouble with is UCL for Psychology who for some reason don't accept it and Sussex who made all access applicants jump through hoops but did eventually give out offers.

[edjunkie]

You need to get in touch with the college offering the Access course directly to answer many of your queries. This is one area where online research will not suffice.

I suggest you ask them the following questions:

1. What is the timetable for the Access course.
- Full time in education at this level typically means 15 hours a week or more. This may for timetable reasons be spread over 5 days or it could 2-3 days a week.
- Once you know that, you can work out if the course is flexible enough for you to continue working or not.
- Whether or not you would be eligible for JSA.
- As a full time student, you should be exempt from council tax, which reduce your outgoings.

2. Ask how much the fees are, given your circumstances.
- the fees will vary by college and what your previous studies you have completed. If you have a Level 3 qualification and are over 25 getting funding is unlikely.
- you may qualify for concessions, so make sure you describe your status accurately.


3. Ask who the awarding body is for the Access course is.
- this can affect which universities accept your qualification.

4. Ask if the college has any discretionary funds or loan schemes for students suffering financial hardship.

5. Ask if it is possible to Maths and English GCSE alongside the Access course.
- It is best long term to have the GCSEs rather than the equivalent qualifications. Especially if a science related course is your long term aim.
- if they say no, go to the library or buy GCSE study guides and plan to take them independently. If you are motivated and start now, you can probably cover a fair amount before starting the Access course. Use study skills sessions to get additional help.

If you want an Access course to be a stepping stone to further study, you have to be prepared to be very proactive.

Your old school, should be able to provide a factual academic reference. It will just confirm that you attended that school between X and Y dates, it may say something about any qualifications you achieved. Part of the reason this is asked for is to verify you are who you say you are. It is entirely possible that someone who taught you is still at the school. Alternatively an employer reference may be acceptable. You will need to ask the college, given your circumstances which is the most appropriate.

[jami74]

Some people on my course have worked nights or 3 long days or gone straight to work from college etc. Our course covered four days but others I looked at only covered 2 or 3.

Yes you pay for access courses, they seem to be around £1k depending where you are. Unless you are under a certain age or on certain benefits.

As for GCSEs it depends on the degree, every university I looked at for my course said in the their entry requirements that GCSE English and Maths were required. If GCSEs are required then you probably won't get past admissions without them. I took a chance with one uni that wanted Bs (I only had Cs) and despite having a good personal statement etc was rejected immediately. Does the college offering access not do GCSEs? Or if you are fairly confident with Maths why not find a college and enter as a private candidate? Look at AQA site for a list of colleges that do this.

I expect the academic reference is more for younger people who have recently come out of school. Why don't you offer a personal or work reference?

It is possible to get into a good university off the back of a good access course but you usually have to meet their other entry requirements as well (eg work experience, GCSEs etc). However not all access courses are held in the same regard with universities so ask the universities you want to attend if they take students from the course you are planning to do.

[Helliconia]

Thank you all very much for your answers, they have all been very helpful in one way or another. I'll be honest, i never thought that it would be this complicated and obstructive to get back into education when i first decided on this path. I decided to ring the student finance people today to see if i would actually be able to get loans should i go to university again (no point in doing an access course if i cant). Apparently because i have done 2 years on an HND already, i will only get tuition fee loans for years 2 and 3 of my degree, which has obviously put a massive dent in my aim of going back to uni. I dont really have anyone to blame for this situation as i chose to do an hnd in something i had no interest in, but now at the age of 28 that i have actually decided what i want to pursue in life, it looks like i may have to drop out before i even begin.

But anyway, thank you all for your help, i am going to ask the college how much the course is anyway, and i will probably look into redoing my maths GCSE as well, just so ive got that under my belt. Incidentally, is self teaching maths GCSE, like has been mentioned, very doable? If i can do it for free (bar the exam entry fee) then thats good by me.

Oh and Beebumble, i am actually on JSA atm after being made redundant a while ago (hence my desire to re-educate myself and make myself more employable). The one thing i dont understand though is obviously JSA is there to provide for you while you look for work, but if i make my intentions clear that i want to join an access course in septemeber and become a full time student, will they still pay for the course come september even if i get a temp job in the meantime? Would seem like it would be in my benefit to string out JSA until the course starts if it turned out i would have to pay for it if i get a job for the next few months. (which is not what i want to do, ideal scenario would be to work for the next few months and quit before school starts)

I think it all comes down to whether i can get the access course for free/how much it costs or not, which will determine what i do. There is a small possibility that with taking a year out and doing some hardcore saving/calling in some favours i could possibly be able to pay for my first year of a degree, but doubt very much i could afford the access course and/or GCSE maths on top of that. Speaking of which, if i did an access course this coming year and completed it, could i take a year out before i apply for unis so that i could work and try and save enough money?

Thanks once again everyone.

just a quick edit after thinking of something else: Evening Sunrise, i only have one A-level in general studies and 3 AS-levels in other subjects. Would this count as my already having level 3 qualifications? Would dread to think that whether or not i get the course free or not hangs on such a ****ty and worthless a-level, lol.

[edjunkie]

It won't be just your A level that causes you to have to pay fees, it will be your HND which triggers ELQ, a HND is a level 4/5 qualification. You will need to check if ELQ also excludes you from concessionary fees. Are you on contribution or income based JSA? Generally speaking contibution based JSA does not qualify for fee concessions. What is your HND in and what do you want to do now?

[evening sunrise]

(Original post by Helliconia)
just a quick edit after thinking of something else: Evening Sunrise, i only have one A-level in general studies and 3 AS-levels in other subjects. Would this count as my already having level 3 qualifications? Would dread to think that whether or not i get the course free or not hangs on such a ****ty and worthless a-level, lol.

Apologies, I was imprecise, I should have said already hold >= L3 qualifications.

Hence edjunckie has answered the question in that it is your HND that is material, both for Access and Uni funding.

[edjunkie]

Unfortunately, despite having longer working lives, there is currently very limited funding available if you want to retrain in different area at a later date.

The FE colleges offer courses during the day or on a full time basis, because that qualifies for some teaching funding. They tend not to offer the same course in the evening because, regardless of hours studied it is considered part time and not eligible for funding.

There are some voices on this forum who believe that a course studied and completed in the first stage of your life will be sufficient for the rest of your working life. This ignores the fact that employers like to hire skilled workers preferable with relevant experience. This is difficult to achieve if you are unable to retrain due to lack of funds.

To the OP, if your HND is at all relevant to the degree you are interested in, you may be able to use this to gain admission to university. Otherwise contact the university and discuss what is the minimum you would need to do to make your self eligible for admission.

Udacity.com have just launched some Maths and physics courses which could help prepare you for science related studies.

[Beebumble]

(Original post by Helliconia)

Oh and Beebumble, i am actually on JSA atm after being made redundant a while ago (hence my desire to re-educate myself and make myself more employable). The one thing i dont understand though is obviously JSA is there to provide for you while you look for work, but if i make my intentions clear that i want to join an access course in septemeber and become a full time student, will they still pay for the course come september even if i get a temp job in the meantime? Would seem like it would be in my benefit to string out JSA until the course starts if it turned out i would have to pay for it if i get a job for the next few months. (which is not what i want to do, ideal scenario would be to work for the next few months and quit before school starts)

Don't mention that you're intending to do an access course to anyone at the job center until you enroll. Give them as little time as possible to screw you out of any money. The way it works in my college is if you're on JSA when you enroll (which is when you pay the fees) you'll be eligible for concession. Although, some colleges don't allow you to have concession if you're on benefits. So check with the college.

[Helliconia]

Thanks once again for the help and advice.

Edjunkie, my HND is not relevant to the degree i want to do. Unfortunately, i rushed into the decision upon leaving college, and just picked anything that i could get into. If id known what i know now, i would have left after gcse and gone into work, until such a date that i knew what i wanted to do and was mature enough to cope with it. Instead i am left with a qualification thats not worth the paper its printed on and only a minute possibility to rectify my mistake. Oh well, thanks anyway.

Beebumble, thanks for the advice, i will speak to the college first (if i can ever get through to them).