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Faith

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    I have always thought that Faith was an acceptable reason for theism, but I found this quote by Dawkins today, and no longer think faith is legitimate.

    "Faith is powerful enough to immunize people against pity, forgiveness, to decent human feelings. It even immunizes them against fear, if they honestly believe that a martyr's death will send them straight to heaven."

    Faith allows all the terrible things that religion causes, what do you think?
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    Faith doesn't tend to allow all the terrible thing religions causes. At least not things like suicide bombings, if that's what you're referring to. Suicide bombers out for a martyr's death have a very warped understanding of their religion. The fault is with them and those who taught them these ideas, not necessarily with the religion itself :nah:
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    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    Faith doesn't tend to allow all the terrible thing religions causes. At least not things like suicide bombings, if that's what you're referring to. Suicide bombers out for a martyr's death have a very warped understanding of their religion. The fault is with them and those who taught them these ideas, not necessarily with the religion itself :nah:
    that just demonstrates that faith is corruptible. if you can't verify your beliefs with outside sources how do you know what you are following is wrong? how many times do we need to hear "oh it isn't religions fault, that guy is just doing it wrong"? maybe it isn't the guy but his chosen mechanism of belief that leads him to immoral behaviour.

    you can thank secular and evidence based thinking for these checks and balances.
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    (Original post by E.Blackadder)
    that just demonstrates that faith is corruptible. if you can't verify your beliefs with outside sources how do you know what you are following is wrong? how many times do we need to hear "oh it isn't religions fault, that guy is just doing it wrong"? maybe it isn't the guy but his chosen mechanism of belief that leads him to immoral behaviour.

    you can thank secular and evidence based thinking for these checks and balances.
    Um, I don't recall saying that I'm against secular or evidence-based thinking? :confused:

    I never said faith is incorruptible either :nah: I just wanted to make the point that many people go blaming a religion or the notion of faith, when in fact a suicide bomber's actions isn't always representative of either :nah:
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    (Original post by aljolson)
    I have always thought that Faith was an acceptable reason for theism, but I found this quote by Dawkins today, and no longer think faith is legitimate.

    "Faith is powerful enough to immunize people against pity, forgiveness, to decent human feelings. It even immunizes them against fear, if they honestly believe that a martyr's death will send them straight to heaven."

    Faith allows all the terrible things that religion causes, what do you think?
    Taking information about faith from RD is like taking information about blacks from the KKK.

    The guy has no objectivity (that's why the fool ignores China, Soviets and the many wars that have claimed the lives of most and have had little to do with faith) and has a very poor in depth knowledge of religions themselves.

    And the last part it sounds like he's talking about the Mujahideen. May God bless them, as a Soviet General once said; "How do you defeat an enemy that looks down the barrel of your gun and see's paradise?" - and that is why Afghan wasn't conquered, why the Crusaders never won, why the Mongols could not advance further, why Gaddafi was toppled, why Assad will be toppled and where much of histories tyrants who would've shaped the world for the worst, were taken down.

    Faith has helped humanity in the worst of situations (including the advancements of civilization, Islamic/Jewish Golden age as an example), and RD is to biased to ever admit that.
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    (Original post by aljolson)
    I have always thought that Faith was an acceptable reason for theism, but I found this quote by Dawkins today, and no longer think faith is legitimate.

    "Faith is powerful enough to immunize people against pity, forgiveness, to decent human feelings. It even immunizes them against fear, if they honestly believe that a martyr's death will send them straight to heaven."

    Faith allows all the terrible things that religion causes, what do you think?
    Faith also allows all the terrible things science can cause, secularism can cause, etc. It's not all down to religion. Dawkins likes to ignores these rather salient facts in his search to destroy religion.
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    I think enough bullying of the religious has happened and it's time for the atheists to realise other people are allowed to believe what they want.

    The constant suggestion that religion is evil is insulting to the millions of people with faith. Let them be. You have found your chosen philosophy. Stick with it and stop proselytising.
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    On the topic: I don't think faith is reasonable either. I think it encourages mental laziness since by definition it attempts to give a worldview which is unchanging. It's true that religious worldviews change slowly, but I think the idea is to find the "intent" behind the religion, and if they ever found that ideal they would stop searching. To some people that seems reasonable and that's fine, but again, I think it's lazy.

    (Original post by SquaredCircle)
    I think enough bullying of the religious has happened and it's time for the atheists to realise other people are allowed to believe what they want.

    The constant suggestion that religion is evil is insulting to the millions of people with faith. Let them be. You have found your chosen philosophy. Stick with it and stop proselytising.
    Insulting people is far less important than finding out what is true.

    Would you be offended if you believed stars only fuse hydrogen and I gave you evidence that they fuse heavier elements? To be honest, it doesn't matter if you do. It's true, and people's beliefs or feelings are irrelevant when we are searching for truth. Sure, we put it in a kind way, and only rare incidents exist where proper debates resulted in outright offensive attacks from either side, but feelings aren't consequential to the truth or falsity of a statement.

    Now we don't know if religion is true or not, but suggesting we shouldn't talk about it, in case we hurt people's feelings, is ridiculous. Plus, outside of times I don't approve of when atheists just insult religious people (which is rare in proper debates), the only time religious people get butt-hurt is when they don't have a comeback to defend their faith, because by the nature of religion it doesn't allow views to change. This is why in a normal debate, the person being shown up doesn't start crying and saying it's unfair, but formulates a counter-argument or changes their stance.
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    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    Faith doesn't tend to allow all the terrible thing religions causes. At least not things like suicide bombings, if that's what you're referring to. Suicide bombers out for a martyr's death have a very warped understanding of their religion. The fault is with them and those who taught them these ideas, not necessarily with the religion itself :nah:
    There is not a lot of difference between suicide bombers now and Crusaders in the 12th century going to the middle east to reclaim the Holy Land from Muslims and Jews.

    Both had faith that they were killing their God's enemies.

    Some Americans call the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan a crusade, certainly some Muslims believe the presence of Western forces in the Middle East a latter day crusade.
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    (Original post by Hypocrism)
    On the topic: I don't think faith is reasonable either. I think it encourages mental laziness since by definition it attempts to give a worldview which is unchanging. It's true that religious worldviews change slowly, but I think the idea is to find the "intent" behind the religion, and if they ever found that ideal they would stop searching. To some people that seems reasonable and that's fine, but again, I think it's lazy.



    Insulting people is far less important than finding out what is true.

    Would you be offended if you believed stars only fuse hydrogen and I gave you evidence that they fuse heavier elements? To be honest, it doesn't matter if you do. It's true, and people's beliefs or feelings are irrelevant when we are searching for truth. Sure, we put it in a kind way, and only rare incidents exist where proper debates resulted in outright offensive attacks from either side, but feelings aren't consequential to the truth or falsity of a statement.

    Now we don't know if religion is true or not, but suggesting we shouldn't talk about it, in case we hurt people's feelings, is ridiculous. Plus, outside of times I don't approve of when atheists just insult religious people (which is rare in proper debates), the only time religious people get butt-hurt is when they don't have a comeback to defend their faith, because by the nature of religion it doesn't allow views to change. This is why in a normal debate, the person being shown up doesn't start crying and saying it's unfair, but formulates a counter-argument or changes their stance.
    Truth is empty.
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    (Original post by SquaredCircle)
    Truth is empty.
    http://htwins.net/scale2/

    This is wonderful, and not empty. We give our own lives meaning, we don't need someone to do it for us.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    There is not a lot of difference between suicide bombers now and Crusaders in the 12th century going to the middle east to reclaim the Holy Land from Muslims and Jews.

    Both had faith that they were killing their God's enemies.

    Some Americans call the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan a crusade, certainly some Muslims believe the presence of Western forces in the Middle East a latter day crusade.
    Still a warped understanding of religion :yes:
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    (Original post by Hypocrism)
    http://htwins.net/scale2/

    This is wonderful, and not empty. We give our own lives meaning, we don't need someone to do it for us.
    Does truth make you happy? Or do your friends and family and your loved ones and for religious people, their religion. Smacking your truth in their face when it won't change their mind is obnoxious and mean spirited. Let them have their happiness. Those who want out will want out. But dear ****. Stop attacking their faith. Most atheists also display outstanding stupidity. Lacking truth is not exclusive to the religious, but just leave this silly stupid debate alone. Especially as it can be quite hurtful to the religious
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    (Original post by aljolson)
    I have always thought that Faith was an acceptable reason for theism, but I found this quote by Dawkins today, and no longer think faith is legitimate.

    "Faith is powerful enough to immunize people against pity, forgiveness, to decent human feelings. It even immunizes them against fear, if they honestly believe that a martyr's death will send them straight to heaven."

    Faith allows all the terrible things that religion causes, what do you think?
    There is an argument against faith, but that's not it. The argument against faith is that it means belief without evidence, and thus has no ability to provide good answers.
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    (Original post by SquaredCircle)
    I think enough bullying of the religious has happened and it's time for the atheists to realise other people are allowed to believe what they want.

    The constant suggestion that religion is evil is insulting to the millions of people with faith. Let them be. You have found your chosen philosophy. Stick with it and stop proselytising.
    This is either trolling, or one of the least self-aware posts ever made.
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    (Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
    This is either trolling, or one of the least self-aware posts ever made.
    I'm an atheist. I know how atheists act and I know how the religious act. Take your silly statements elsewhere
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    (Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
    Still a warped understanding of religion :yes:
    Not at all.

    To paraphrase a quote from N. Ireland during the Troubles; "if you not confused, then you don't understand religion."

    Anyway, you prove Desmond Morris' theory that the role of religion is control without affecting intelligence too much, but obviously, the limits can often be seen.
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    (Original post by aljolson)
    I have always thought that Faith was an acceptable reason for theism, but I found this quote by Dawkins today, and no longer think faith is legitimate.

    "Faith is powerful enough to immunize people against pity, forgiveness, to decent human feelings. It even immunizes them against fear, if they honestly believe that a martyr's death will send them straight to heaven."

    Faith allows all the terrible things that religion causes, what do you think?
    No you didn't. You probably thought this way for a while. If one quote like that changes your mind that quickly then you aren't thinking for yourself properly.
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    (Original post by SquaredCircle)
    Does truth make you happy? Or do your friends and family and your loved ones and for religious people, their religion. Smacking your truth in their face when it won't change their mind is obnoxious and mean spirited. Let them have their happiness. Those who want out will want out. But dear ****. Stop attacking their faith. Most atheists also display outstanding stupidity. Lacking truth is not exclusive to the religious, but just leave this silly stupid debate alone. Especially as it can be quite hurtful to the religious
    "Ignorance is strength"
    "Freedom is slavery"
    "War is peace"
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    (Original post by Maker)
    "Ignorance is strength"
    "Freedom is slavery"
    "War is peace"
    "I can also quote pointless irrelevant quotes from overrated popcorn fiction but it wouldn't add anything to the conversation"

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