[TheEnigmaUK]

I really would like to know how much maths is involved in a degree such as Physiotherapy, as I am interested in getting a career in it.

Advice?

[A.A.T.]

A point just on Maths - One does not have to like/love maths but instead to have the desire to better yourself by understanding some basics would go along way. i.e. I will learn / try my hardest to learn maths to help my further studies / employment. Attitude is key. Is it so hard to say to yourself, "I just don't get it - so I will try again or think about it in a different way or ask for help rather than (if this is the case!) give up.

What has made you think you are "hopeless"? Teachers / results / grades, peers, etc?

[Ironmike]

I've just finished my degree in Physio, and there is pretty much none other than in the dissertation you have to do statistics. I am a nightmare with maths too and I have made it through, so don't stress.

[TheEnigmaUK]

(Original post by Ironmike)
I've just finished my degree in Physio, and there is pretty much none other than in the dissertation you have to do statistics. I am a nightmare with maths too and I have made it through, so don't stress.

Hi Mike, just a quick question about Physiotherapy. What is the starting salary for a graduate in the NHS? Because someone told me that Physiotherapy isn't the best degree to take as you need to do an extra 2 years working in NHS before you earn a decent salary. Is this true?

[Ironmike]

(Original post by TheEnigmaUK)
Hi Mike, just a quick question about Physiotherapy. What is the starting salary for a graduate in the NHS? Because someone told me that Physiotherapy isn't the best degree to take as you need to do an extra 2 years working in NHS before you earn a decent salary. Is this true?

This is published for nurses, but physios have exactly the same pay scale.

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/...992/004106.pdf

A graduate physio would be a band 5, so starting salary £21,176 but if you are working in inner london, would be nearer £25,000. Depending on where you are working, you could also add on a bit of on call money from working weekends or nights, so that will top you up. I also plan to do some private stuff on weekends should I get a band 5 job, so Inner London hospital plus on call plus a bit of private would equate to around 30k a year before tax which isn't a bad starting salary in my eyes.

As for the two years before you earn a decent salary, well it depends upon your definition. In my eyes, 25-30k per year isn't a bad starting salary at all, but if you are comparing this to investment bankers or hedge fund managers then it is. The two years thing is pretty much when you are considered to have done your time as a junior, and can start looking for promotion. Guess it depends on what your expectations are and what you consider 'decent'

[TheEnigmaUK]

(Original post by Ironmike)
This is published for nurses, but physios have exactly the same pay scale.

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/...992/004106.pdf

A graduate physio would be a band 5, so starting salary £21,176 but if you are working in inner london, would be nearer £25,000. Depending on where you are working, you could also add on a bit of on call money from working weekends or nights, so that will top you up. I also plan to do some private stuff on weekends should I get a band 5 job, so Inner London hospital plus on call plus a bit of private would equate to around 30k a year before tax which isn't a bad starting salary in my eyes.

As for the two years before you earn a decent salary, well it depends upon your definition. In my eyes, 25-30k per year isn't a bad starting salary at all, but if you are comparing this to investment bankers or hedge fund managers then it is. The two years thing is pretty much when you are considered to have done your time as a junior, and can start looking for promotion. Guess it depends on what your expectations are and what you consider 'decent'

Hey, sorry for all the questions. Thanks for the reply, and that does sound pretty good for a starting salary. I think the average salary is around £25,000 for most people in work, so yeah that is really good for a starting salary.

Just a few more questions for you, I hope you don't mind.

Where did you study?

Can I get onto a Physiotherapy degree with an access course qualification?

And is there a certain age limit for the course?
I know there probably wouldn't be, but I'd be 25 by the time I would start the course, and I am curious about the age thing.

If I think of anything else, I will ask some more. Thanks again!

[Ironmike]

(Original post by TheEnigmaUK)
Hey, sorry for all the questions. Thanks for the reply, and that does sound pretty good for a starting salary. I think the average salary is around £25,000 for most people in work, so yeah that is really good for a starting salary.

Just a few more questions for you, I hope you don't mind.

Where did you study?

Can I get onto a Physiotherapy degree with an access course qualification?

And is there a certain age limit for the course?
I know there probably wouldn't be, but I'd be 25 by the time I would start the course, and I am curious about the age thing.

If I think of anything else, I will ask some more. Thanks again!

I studied at St George's. There are a number of routes onto the physio course, so best to e-mail the admissions tutors. An access to healthcare course or similar would definitely be accepted, but if you have done something a bit out of the ordinary it would be best to check your individual circumstances with them directly - they are usually pretty good at getting back to you within a couple of days.

To my knowledge there is no upper age limit on the course. As there are anti-discriminatory laws applied to the application process, they aren't allowed to reject you on the grounds of something like age. Maybe at interview if you were 70 they might question why you are wanting to pursue a career in physio now! I am 34 and started the course when I was 31, so at 25 you are a spring chicken, and if my cohort is anything to go by, you would be about the average age.

[TheEnigmaUK]

(Original post by Ironmike)
I studied at St George's. There are a number of routes onto the physio course, so best to e-mail the admissions tutors. An access to healthcare course or similar would definitely be accepted, but if you have done something a bit out of the ordinary it would be best to check your individual circumstances with them directly - they are usually pretty good at getting back to you within a couple of days.

To my knowledge there is no upper age limit on the course. As there are anti-discriminatory laws applied to the application process, they aren't allowed to reject you on the grounds of something like age. Maybe at interview if you were 70 they might question why you are wanting to pursue a career in physio now! I am 34 and started the course when I was 31, so at 25 you are a spring chicken, and if my cohort is anything to go by, you would be about the average age.

I just checked out the St Georges website for Physiotherapy, and it says on there that applicants need A-B grades in Maths and English. I did awful at my GCSE'S and I only have level 2 numeracy and literacy, which are equivalent to grade C in GCSE. I know I'd probably have to ask them directly regarding this issue, but do you think they would be lenient with this or not? Because Physio is quite a competitive degree, so I'm guessing they wouldn't.
Do you know of any other Universities that are a bit more lenient with grades?

[Ironmike]

(Original post by TheEnigmaUK)
I just checked out the St Georges website for Physiotherapy, and it says on there that applicants need A-B grades in Maths and English. I did awful at my GCSE'S and I only have level 2 numeracy and literacy, which are equivalent to grade C in GCSE. I know I'd probably have to ask them directly regarding this issue, but do you think they would be lenient with this or not? Because Physio is quite a competitive degree, so I'm guessing they wouldn't.
Do you know of any other Universities that are a bit more lenient with grades?

I have just had a look and I think they have tightened it up since I applied. I had a B in Maths and English at GCSE, but I don't think they looked at that as I had a 2:1 in my degree, so was eligible that way. You are going to need to ask them directly I think, and it may be that you need to take an access course for a year before applying for 2014 entry.

I don't know about other unis. I think that George's is actually one of the more lenient ones, or at least they let a lot more mature students and such in who haven't got any formal qualifications, or who might not have done so well in earlier study. I guess with the funding restrictions, places are getting a lot more competitive, and the entrance requirements are going up to reflect this.

[TheEnigmaUK]

(Original post by Ironmike)
I have just had a look and I think they have tightened it up since I applied. I had a B in Maths and English at GCSE, but I don't think they looked at that as I had a 2:1 in my degree, so was eligible that way. You are going to need to ask them directly I think, and it may be that you need to take an access course for a year before applying for 2014 entry.

I don't know about other unis. I think that George's is actually one of the more lenient ones, or at least they let a lot more mature students and such in who haven't got any formal qualifications, or who might not have done so well in earlier study. I guess with the funding restrictions, places are getting a lot more competitive, and the entrance requirements are going up to reflect this.

I do believe I will have to take some kind of health course, as I don't see them letting me on without that. I think the access courses are the only other way of getting onto a course without standard A levels. It's annoying if they have tightened it up, as it will mean that many people won't be able to study for it. So you had a degree before you started Physiotherapy? That probably would definitely had helped I guess.

The thing is, Physiotherapy is pretty much a stable career. And the starting salary is really good too, so I'm not surprised that it's a popular degree. I don't mean to keep coming back to the maths again, but I looked on their site at the "a week in the life of a Physiotherapy student" to see what the course would involve, and there wasn't anything about maths.

But where in the degree was maths involved? Like how much in 1st year and 2nd year? And what kind of maths did you do? And how was it applied to Physiotherapy? When you look at a Physiotherapy degree, you wouldn't expect it to contain maths as Physiotherapy is more about rehabilitation than maths. But I worry about the maths the most, as I'm just not that good at it. And the highest I've studied maths, was up to GCSE in my Level 2 numeracy course.

Thanks for the replies as well, I really appreciate it!

[Ironmike]

(Original post by TheEnigmaUK)
I do believe I will have to take some kind of health course, as I don't see them letting me on without that. I think the access courses are the only other way of getting onto a course without standard A levels. It's annoying if they have tightened it up, as it will mean that many people won't be able to study for it. So you had a degree before you started Physiotherapy? That probably would definitely had helped I guess.

The thing is, Physiotherapy is pretty much a stable career. And the starting salary is really good too, so I'm not surprised that it's a popular degree. I don't mean to keep coming back to the maths again, but I looked on their site at the "a week in the life of a Physiotherapy student" to see what the course would involve, and there wasn't anything about maths.

But where in the degree was maths involved? Like how much in 1st year and 2nd year? And what kind of maths did you do? And how was it applied to Physiotherapy? When you look at a Physiotherapy degree, you wouldn't expect it to contain maths as Physiotherapy is more about rehabilitation than maths. But I worry about the maths the most, as I'm just not that good at it. And the highest I've studied maths, was up to GCSE in my Level 2 numeracy course.

Thanks for the replies as well, I really appreciate it!

There is a bit of a jobs problem at the moment, but it's definitely not as bad as it was. My degree was about 10 years old by the time I started physio, so I'm not sure it counted anyway, but I think they now stipulate it has to have been studied within the last 5 years, so on that basis, I wouldn't have got in were I to apply now.

The maths parts of the course? Well, there is a bit of biomechanics in the first year - joint angles, ground reaction forces, little bit of physics, but it really is just a couple of lectures and we had an exam question on it in the summer. The only other maths was in the third year when we wrote our dissertations - we had to do statistics which is very maths heavy, but SPSS (stats software package) takes care of the number crunching, so all you have to do is put the write data in and press a button. It really isn't that hard. I only had maths to GCSE level, so it's not as if I am a genius and I survived.

I wouldn't let the maths thing put you off at all. Even if you are unable to add 2 and 2 together it won't stop you completing the degree.

[zippyRN]

I wonder whether the 2 years reference towards decent salaries was an oblique reference to either being able to do on-call and/or the earliest point of being serious considered for a band 6 ...

at present, but it may well change Physios in the NHS tend to have an 'office hours' existence rather than working a full 24/7/365 shift pattern like Nurses, Midwives, ODPs and Paramedics , that said physios do tend to have some on call and limited weekend shift working , but in the way that Radiography has increasingly become a 24/7/365 job, Physio may follow especially as therapy assessment delays are a significant delayer of discharge (but a long way behind Social W**ker delays )

[TheEnigmaUK]

(Original post by zippyRN)
I wonder whether the 2 years reference towards decent salaries was an oblique reference to either being able to do on-call and/or the earliest point of being serious considered for a band 6 ...

at present, but it may well change Physios in the NHS tend to have an 'office hours' existence rather than working a full 24/7/365 shift pattern like Nurses, Midwives, ODPs and Paramedics , that said physios do tend to have some on call and limited weekend shift working , but in the way that Radiography has increasingly become a 24/7/365 job, Physio may follow especially as therapy assessment delays are a significant delayer of discharge (but a long way behind Social W**ker delays )

Do you study Physiotherapy??

[zippyRN]

(Original post by TheEnigmaUK)
Do you study Physiotherapy??

No, the clue to my role in the NHS is in my username ...

[TheEnigmaUK]

(Original post by zippyRN)
No, the clue to my role in the NHS is in my username ...

Oh right, I didn't take much notice of your username. So you're a registered Nurse, so I guess there's no point asking you about maths in a Physio degree. No problem, thanks for the input anyway. No, the 2 year reference was from someone I know from my days in college. He just mentioned that when he looked into Physiotherapy, he read that you don't earn decent salary until after 2 years, but it's probably all BS and he didn't look into that much. He is now studying Osteopath, but I think he was more interested in the salaries from either career. And maybe the NHS will make Physio's work unorthodox hours in the future. You will probably find out before anyone else, as you work in the NHS.

[Ironmike]

(Original post by TheEnigmaUK)
Oh right, I didn't take much notice of your username. So you're a registered Nurse, so I guess there's no point asking you about maths in a Physio degree. No problem, thanks for the input anyway. No, the 2 year reference was from someone I know from my days in college. He just mentioned that when he looked into Physiotherapy, he read that you don't earn decent salary until after 2 years, but it's probably all BS and he didn't look into that much. He is now studying Osteopath, but I think he was more interested in the salaries from either career. And maybe the NHS will make Physio's work unorthodox hours in the future. You will probably find out before anyone else, as you work in the NHS.

I think that 24 hour working, or certainly weekend working is coming en mass to physio. Some hospitals do this already, and I think you are right Zippy in that it is probably time we stopped office hours working. Private practice you tend to work into the night, although this is far from unsocial hours, but it helps patients who have jobs etc and who can't get to you 9-5. Changing times indeed.

[TheEnigmaUK]

(Original post by Ironmike)
I think that 24 hour working, or certainly weekend working is coming en mass to physio. Some hospitals do this already, and I think you are right Zippy in that it is probably time we stopped office hours working. Private practice you tend to work into the night, although this is far from unsocial hours, but it helps patients who have jobs etc and who can't get to you 9-5. Changing times indeed.

Have you started as a Physio yet Mike? Because someone told me that Physiotherapy is becoming a very competitive career, and there's becoming less spaces for Physiotherapists in the NHS. Is this true? And if I were to study Physiotherapy and get a degree, would I struggle to find work?

By the way, I live in Essex so London would be an ideal place for me to work.

[Ironmike]

(Original post by TheEnigmaUK)
Have you started as a Physio yet Mike? Because someone told me that Physiotherapy is becoming a very competitive career, and there's becoming less spaces for Physiotherapists in the NHS. Is this true? And if I were to study Physiotherapy and get a degree, would I struggle to find work?

By the way, I live in Essex so London would be an ideal place for me to work.

It's a question that comes up a lot on here. I haven't started working yet for the NHS, but am just out. Got a fair few clients already off my own back, so going to stick with that for the summer. It is harder to get a job now yes, but there are very few industries that haven't been affected by the recession. Taxmen and undertakers spring to mind.

Basing a degree decision on what the job market is like 4/5 years from when you will graduate is not viable in my view. Who knows what will be happening then. There is more competition in the form of any willing provider, and this will undoubtedly lead to traditional physio roles coming under fire from other professions. There are jobs out there though, and I wouldn't let this put you off.

If you want to be a physio, then go study physio. Don't stress about the jobs. As the population gets older and fatter, there will always be a need for physios in my opinion!

[TheEnigmaUK]

(Original post by Ironmike)
It's a question that comes up a lot on here. I haven't started working yet for the NHS, but am just out. Got a fair few clients already off my own back, so going to stick with that for the summer. It is harder to get a job now yes, but there are very few industries that haven't been affected by the recession. Taxmen and undertakers spring to mind.

Basing a degree decision on what the job market is like 4/5 years from when you will graduate is not viable in my view. Who knows what will be happening then. There is more competition in the form of any willing provider, and this will undoubtedly lead to traditional physio roles coming under fire from other professions. There are jobs out there though, and I wouldn't let this put you off.

If you want to be a physio, then go study physio. Don't stress about the jobs. As the population gets older and fatter, there will always be a need for physios in my opinion!

Okay, that's helpful. How did you find clients? did you just go around handing out leaflets through people's doors, or was it something that the University helped you with?

Also, do you get funding through the NHS for the Physiotherapy degree? I have read that you do get funding, but don't know how reliable this information is. And if so, what is the funding meant for?

Economically, I hope things will get better in 3/4 years. Be great if there was a massive boom in the NHS and they needed Physiotherapists by that time lol. I guess time will tell, but I want to look into the degree a bit more before forming my decision to study it.