[Polygoof]

My mother is from one country, and my father is from another country.

For some random reason in history, these two countries start a war, and for some reason the young people who are in the military of either country are proud to serve their country and die fighting in this war.

During and after the war, those who die or get disabled while proudly fighting get statues, medals or at least expensive funerals for having served their country.

One young man from my fathers' country who killed many young men from my mothers' country gets awards. The same happens vice-versa.

They murdered each other for some reason. And that reason is so important that these trained murderers are glorified as heroes.

What reasons can be so important not only to justify murder, but to actually award and celebrate those who murder?

Defending one country for some reason?
Attacking one country for some reason?

And would that mean that the motivation of one country is objectively greater than the motivation of another country, i.e. would it mean that a hero from my mothers' country might be "more noble" than a hero from my fathers' country?
How to determine which reason is most noble?

But apart from that, could it be that soldiers are awarded simply for the fact of being effective murderers and masters of warfare, of doing their "job" well?

In either case, when I hear soldiers or veterans of one parents' country being glorified for having fought against those of another parents' country, I can only wonder whether it is propaganda in favor of the military industries - and fighting in general.

As I don't want my parents' countries to be at war, I feel it would be morally right for me to ignore or even oppose any glorification of soldiers, military and veterans - whether they are dead, disabled or alive.

I must admit that sometimes my emotions run so high that I feel like spitting in the face at those who walk around asking donations for veterans... and kicking around those poppys that stand around the roads... but I am opening this discussion to express my emotions in a more civil way and perhaps find some sort of closure or rational explanation on how I should develop a more informed stance on the matter.

[Harry Callahan]

They're doing the job they're paid to do. In the case of veterans, the job they had to do.

I can't stand the glorification of them, and I don't think for one minute that they should be regarded as heroes, but they're doing their job.

The fact you even entertained the idea of spitting in a collector's face is despicable when these veterans fought for our country.

[Polygoof]

(Original post by Harry Callahan)
The fact you even entertained the idea of spitting in a collector's face is despicable when these veterans fought for our country.

How would you react if you belonged to two different countries that were at war and those veterans were people who killed people from your other country?

[cl_steele]

im in broad accordance with what harry callahan said but id like to add that sometimes these man had no choice? lets take the two world wars they saved both their country and the free world by laying down their lives for their nation and their cause, would you 'spit' in their faces?
in fact now i reader deeper into your post i find it incredibly offensive, you do realise these soldiers arent solely paid to go shoot up a country for no reason? they do go on peace keeping missions aswell such as the ones down in Africa, they help topple violent dictatorships such as in Libya ... without these people putting theiur lives on the line this world would be a lot worse off.

[tazarooni89]

I think we glorify soldiers and the military, because we need it to be seen as a respectable profession, as an incentive for people to join. Other countries which don't do this find themselves having to legally force its citizens to perform a couple of years of military service, because otherwise not enough people would join of their own accord. Understandably, most people aren't really going to want to begin a career which they perceive to be a great risk to their own lives - unless they're getting seriously rewarded for it somehow.

Of course, no matter what the political agenda, it's despicable to kill innocent citizens of any country. But nonetheless every country still needs a military in order to protect its own citizens from potential threat, and for other missions which aim to minimise violence in the long term, which is a noble cause. But the military is also often used for more sinister causes too - and even for these, governments need to find a way to make people willing to join.

[Harry Callahan]

(Original post by Polygoof)
How would you react if you belonged to two different countries that were at war and those veterans were people who killed people from your other country?

That's war, I'm afraid.

[Nightstar-27]

The world isn't one united place, it is made of loads of different countries that have their own interests at heart. Sometimes their own personal interests involves attacking other countries and other times it involves defending ourselves. People often glorify these men (and now women) for fighting for us, whether they are fighting to defend us from an attack or fighting to get us something we need. People do think in an us vs them mentality and generally we need something to unit us other than we're all humans. One way we are united is from which country we're from and especially in the past when the world was less globalised we put the interest of our countries in front of the interest of other countries. I personally don't glorify soldiers nor do I hate them. Most of them are just doing a job to feed their families and a lot of soldiers today don't even go to battle so I would hardly call them murders. I don't hate veterans either, most of them aren't horrible people and considering the time they were raised are likely to be patriotic and felt they were only trying to serve their country and help their fellow countrymen and women. At the end of the day, if the country I am in is being attacked for whatever reason I would be happy for people to fight and try and defend us all. I'm not so keen on supporting soldiers to be used fight and attack other countries for dodgy reasons though.

I understand partly where you are coming from. Half my family are Northern Irish Catholics and my grandparents have had British soldiers point guns at them and give them abuse because of them being catholic, on the other hand people on the other half of my family have suffered because of the IRA when they themselves had nothing to do with what was going on in Ireland. I take a neutral stance and see soldiers as individuals and not a collective.

[Polygoof]

(Original post by Harry Callahan)
That's war, I'm afraid.

Yeah, but my question was: how would you react if you saw one veteran of your dad's country being glorified or asking for donations after he killed people in your mom's country?

[Cannotbelieveit]

Because they put their lives on the line day in day out, for not only this country's freedom, but your freedom.

War shouldn't be glorified, but we should definitely pay tribute and respect to those who fight in it on our behalf.

EDIT: Can't believe I'm being negged so much, it really is a testimony to some of the people on this forum.

[Harry Callahan]

(Original post by Polygoof)
Yeah, but my question was: how would you react if you saw one veteran of your dad's country being glorified or asking for donations after he killed people in your mom's country?

Like I said, that's just the way it goes. That's what war is. There's always gonna be a winner, there's always gonna be a loser.

[Polygoof]

(Original post by Cannotbelieveit)
[...] but we should definitely pay tribute and respect to those who fight in it on our behalf.

What if I never wanted my dad's country to wage war against my mum's country?

[Polygoof]

(Original post by Harry Callahan)
Like I said, that's just the way it goes. That's what war is. There's always gonna be a winner, there's always gonna be a loser.

I mean literally how would you react (as in a behavior) in that scenario?

Would you just pass by that veteran ignoring him? Would you think "Ah, it's ok, my dad's country won, and my mom's country lost, he just fought in it?"

Would you feel no particular emotion towards that veteran?

[kat91s]

I am also of two nationalities that were formally at war. If it wasn't for that war I wouldn't exist, so I have to accept that it happened and that I'm a result of it, even though I've seen how affected by it those generations of my family still are.

Soldiers are glorified because they are risking their lives to protect their home and their families. That's how they have been recruited for centuries. It's seen as a duty and an honour to fight for your country. It's not right, war is never right.

My grandfather was shot in the lung and suffered with bad health for decades from it before he died. His father was shot and killed in the same war. They had no choice but to fight in it, so really they were only doing their job, but they suffered for it, and that does deserve some recognition.

[Akbar2k7]

Because most of them are innocent men who actually want to protect their nation, countless of them die at a young age and this risk they take is glorious.

However the politicians deserve to be hung from a stake for starting useless pointless and sometimes illegal wars. Killing civilians,young men from both sides and doing nothing but fueling fundamentalism.

[Polygoof]

(Original post by kat91s)
I am also of two nationalities that were formally at war. If it wasn't for that war I wouldn't exist, so I have to accept that it happened and that I'm a result of it, even though I've seen how affected by it those generations of my family still are.

How would you behave if those two countries started war now, today?

How would you behave if you knew that your friends in your one country are getting ready to kill your friends in your other country?

[cuckoo99]

This thread is disgusting imo. These people risk there lives for our country's prosperity.... we give them medals because they are doing a dangerous job that not many people want to do though it must be done otherwise our country would be weak. Veterans who defended our country in ww2 and the falklands deserve respect, and who are you to say they do not.

[TheHansa]

(Original post by Akbar2k7)
Because most of them are innocent men who actually want to protect their nation, countless of them die at a young age and this risk they take is glorious.

However the politicians deserve to be hung from a stake for starting useless pointless and sometimes illegal wars. Killing civilians,young men from both sides and doing nothing but fueling fundamentalism.

Exactly what I was going to say. OP the average soldier does not deserve contempt, their job is necessary, it's the polticians who are to blame.

[KingGoonIan]

Compared to America we hardly glorify our military servicemen and women.

[siwelmail]

(Original post by Polygoof)
I must admit that sometimes my emotions run so high that I feel like spitting in the face at those who walk around asking donations for veterans... and kicking around those poppys that stand around the roads... but I am opening this discussion to express my emotions in a more civil way and perhaps find some sort of closure or rational explanation on how I should develop a more informed stance on the matter.

You're disgusting.

How is that civil, and how will that change anything? And how is it harming you in such a way you would be so moronic as to desecrate something like that?

[Polygoof]

(Original post by cuckoo99)
and who are you to say they do not.

The thread is only a question based on my emotional reaction, not really a statement.