[TOSCS]

(Original post by trogg)
The FAI team have set themselves up as a de facto 'all' Ireland team and have proven it to be less inclusive; it's a team made up entirely of Irish nationalists (+ their English B reps)

Contrast that with the mixed NI team.

This is some of the worst logic I have ever heard. Are you actually serious?

Christ above.

[brightonlad89]

No, of course not. Getting rid of a country's national team because of bad behaviour of some fans? If we took that approach to football-- there would be few teams left!

Racism, sectarianism, homophobia, classism, sexism... whatever the problem happens to be, it has absolutely no place in society, let alone football. Punish the fans who ruin it by banning them. But absolutely never give in to them.

Northern Ireland has a strong sense of identity, and regardless of issues it has, a consistent majority have consistently self-determined that they do not want to follow Southern Ireland as a Republic. Having been there, they appear to have a stronger British patriotism than other parts of the UK, and so taking away their national football team would serve no purpose other than to punish its residents and cause more sectarian bitterness.

Clearly, the minority is still significant though and compromises do need to be met and so I am definitely behind the choice provided to the nationalist minority to be able to self-determine their personal identities in an official way such as opting for an Irish passport or playing for the Irish team if that is where they are most comfortable.

There is no easy answer when communities want conflicting things, but it seems that Northern Ireland has been absolutely brilliant in ironing out a lot of these concerns and dealing strongly with those who break the peace.

Sure, there will be some fickle fans (and players) who will support or play for whoever ''wins most'' (and boy, are there many everywhere), but... let them. Everyone will see through that. Northern Ireland's population is less than that of London, so obviously it has less pickings. But, then I always liked an underdog and I do like to see them do well. Why take that away

[TOSCS]

(Original post by brightonlad89)
Northern Ireland has a strong sense of identity

A plastic state situated in the Irish province of Ulster, inhabited by Irish and Scottish bloodlines who see themselves as Irish and British respectively, with no national anthem, patron saint or even an official flag.

Very strong identity there

[brightonlad89]

(Original post by TOSCS)
A plastic state situated in the Irish province of Ulster, inhabited by Irish and Scottish bloodlines who see themselves as Irish and British respectively, with no national anthem, patron saint or even an official flag.

Very strong identity there

Their national anthem is the same as that of England, and their flag (albeit, no longer officially, is the St George's cross with the Crown and Red Hand of Ulster in the centre). There are issues with both, as a significant minority take offence to British symbolism and so they are currently seeking a flag that offends neither Irish nor Northern Irish identified Northern Ireland residents.

However, what is official and what is not matters little as they are common symbols still in use in Northern Ireland (and in football), and certainly for the Protestent majority they are symbols that form a strong part of their national identity. Even the constrasting Catholic areas of Northern Ireland utilise Irish symbolism and rightfully so, as having a sense of Irish identity is incredibly important to them.

Both communities though, regardless of their religion, portray a sense of pride of where they're from, whether they capitilise the 'Northern' or not. Official beaurcracy matters little when it comes to community identity and so I reckon the new flag, if it happens, will find it hard to be accepted as part of Northern Irish identity from anyone there of any political persuasian simply because its design will purposely not mean much at all.

Northern Ireland has a very different culture to the rest of the British Isles (including the Republic of Ireland) in its accents, use of language, history, architecture, laws, moral boundaries, terrain etc., and all Northern Irish/northern Irish people will have a distinguished Northern Irish/north of Ireland national identity in the same way that the Scots, Welsh, English etc. all have their own distinguished cultures as well.

To say that they do not is just, frankly, ignorant and offensive to those who live or are from there.

[trogg]

Well said BL.

On the flag & anthem front - both these can actually be changed at matches by the IFA so strictly speaking we don't need to wait for the politicians. There is frequent and as you can imagine, pretty emotional, debate on the matter within the support. Personally I'd like an exclusively Northern Irish anthem in place of GSTQ but I like the flag as it's our flag and no one else's. To be honest though we have both British and Irish symbols at our matches so when people raise it as an issue I believe they're being disingenuous and unfair.

I disagree with you on what I and most fans see as allowing the FAI to poach Roman Catholics from our youth & senior squads as it should be about sporting integrity not a land grab based on political aspiration. By all means want an all-Ireland team, that's your business, but the current FIFA ruling on allowing extra-territorial Republic of Ireland citizenship laws to dictate to football is an unfair advantage few footballing nations in the world must put up with.

[TOSCS]

(Original post by trogg)
I disagree with you on what I and most fans see as allowing the FAI to poach Roman Catholics from our youth & senior squads

Nobody is poaching anybody ya clown. Players born in the Six Counties are free to play for the Republic. If Northern Ireland was a proper country the situation would be different but unfortunately it is not.

If you would like Roman Catholics to play for Northern Ireland perhaps your fans should cop themselves on.

Let's not forget this


Animals.

[trogg]

(Original post by TOSCS)
This is some of the worst logic I have ever heard.

Fond of the hyperbole aren't you?

What part of it do you take issue with - it's an accurate reflection of the FAI's recruitment policies. The FAI's chief exec John Delaney said it was their job to recruit players ...'especially young nationalists'.

[trogg]

(Original post by TOSCS)
Nobody is poaching anybody ya clown.

Enough of the personal abuse. Is that not what you're alleging NI fans do? People are going to listen to you...

Six Counties

Uhuh.

If Northern Ireland was a proper country the situation would be different but unfortunately it is not.

Ah right. I stand corrected

If you would like Roman Catholics to play for Northern Ireland perhaps your fans should cop themselves on.

Current NI squad:

Lee Camp
Roy Carroll
Alan Mannus
Lee Hodson
Daniel Lafferty
Ryan McGivern
Colin Coates
Michael Duff
James McPake
Rory McArdle
Grant McCann
Sammy Clingan
Shane Ferguson
Jeff Hughes
Corry Evans
Paddy McCourt
Oliver Norwood
Josh McQuoid
David Healy
Niall McGinn
Rory Donnelly
Andrew Little
Will Grigg
Josh Carson

I'll leave it up to the reader to decide whether Northern Irish Roman Catholics have an issue playing for their country.

Animals.

Tasteless graffiti concerning rival country's player shock? Unless you're saying these 'threats' are credible (and specifically, from NI fans and not Rangers), in which case you must have some information the rest of us don't have?