[jakeboyd]

If we spend 1/3 of our lives dreaming, then surely the dream world is nearly as important as our perceived reality. We may overlook our dreams as mere subconscious thoughts, but what if they are an alternate reality? When you wake up from a dream, you remember it briefly but eventually forget. Could this not be applied to death? When we die we slip into another reality forgetting all memory of the previous one.

Thoughts?

[Alpharius]

This sounds like some new drama program that Sky have made. Some police captain is involved in an accident with his wife and son, in one reality his wife survived, and when he falls asleep it reverses (his son survived).

Don't think it matters. Has no effect on the other 2/3's of your life.

[RedDragon]

(Original post by jakeboyd)
If we spend 1/3 of our lives dreaming, then surely the dream world is nearly as important as our perceived reality. We may overlook our dreams as mere subconscious thoughts, but what if they are an alternate reality? When you wake up from a dream, you remember it briefly but eventually forget. Could this not be applied to death? When we die we slip into another reality forgetting all memory of the previous one.

Thoughts?

I don't know about that, I'm writing a story where the land in which it is based, is a land I used to dream about as a child. I still remember some of those dreams, maybe I am just weird though.

[SquaredCircle]

What is to suggest that when you do dream, you don't value your dream world just as much as reality. The assumption that we don't value the DW is made in a separate reality. If you lived in the dream world permanently. You would value it permanently. Just ask Leonardo di Caprio

[jay.henri]

(Original post by Alpharius)
This sounds like some new drama program that Sky have made. Some police captain is involved in an accident with his wife and son, in one reality his wife survived, and when he falls asleep it reverses (his son survived).

Don't think it matters. Has no effect on the other 2/3's of your life.

what's it called?

[jakeboyd]

(Original post by RedDragon)
I don't know about that, I'm writing a story where the land in which it is based, is a land I used to dream about as a child. I still remember some of those dreams, maybe I am just weird though.

Well I suppose you could kind of twin the dreams you remember with feelings of deja vu in this sense? The brain recalls certain aspects that have an impact, but ultimately one reality is not more important than another. These are the weird thoughts that go through my head every day, should probably see someone about it!

[Ra Ra Ra]

This reminded me of my sig...

[SquaredCircle]

The death bit is silly because we have no evidence for any sort of afterlife. Just silky speculation

[jakeboyd]

(Original post by SquaredCircle)
The death bit is silly because we have no evidence for any sort of afterlife. Just silky speculation

Philosophy is about speculation? We don't have evidence for many things that appear on this forum but we still discuss the possibilities!

[Alpharius]

(Original post by jay.henri)
what's it called?

"Start", I think. If I'd remembered, I would have put it in the post

[SquaredCircle]

(Original post by jakeboyd)
Philosophy is about speculation? We don't have evidence for many things that appear on this forum but we still discuss the possibilities!

It's the equivalent of discussing if Charizard exists

[jakeboyd]

(Original post by SquaredCircle)
It's the equivalent of discussing if Charizard exists

Should probably be in a Science forum if you want to discuss hard evidence. If we had answers we wouldn't need to ask 'Why?' and as that is one of the fundamental questions in Philosophy speculation is all we can do.

[SquaredCircle]

(Original post by jakeboyd)
Should probably be in a Science forum if you want to discuss hard evidence. If we had answers we wouldn't need to ask 'Why?' and as that is one of the fundamental questions in Philosophy speculation is all we can do.

Discussing if Charizard exists would probably be a more entertaining discussion.

[scriggy]

(Original post by Alpharius)
"Start", I think. If I'd remembered, I would have put it in the post

(Original post by jay.henri)
what's it called?

'Awake,' I believe.

[jakeboyd]

(Original post by SquaredCircle)
Discussing if Charizard exists would probably be a more entertaining discussion.

That may be, maybe you should start a thread on it?

[Alpharius]

(Original post by scriggy)
'Awake,' I believe.

That's the one!

This is why I didn't say it in my first post. Couldn't remember.

[JustCharley]

(Original post by jakeboyd)
If we spend 1/3 of our lives dreaming, then surely the dream world is nearly as important as our perceived reality. We may overlook our dreams as mere subconscious thoughts, but what if they are an alternate reality? When you wake up from a dream, you remember it briefly but eventually forget. Could this not be applied to death? When we die we slip into another reality forgetting all memory of the previous one.

Thoughts?

When you are dreaming, you don't identify what you are perceiving as just subconscious thoughts. This is because dreaming has the same phenomenological effects on our experience or perception, as external reality does. So you could argue, that when we are dreaming we value it just as much as our perception of external reality, because you can't tell the difference until you wake up. I know that some people sometimes always dream with a certain decorative border around their frame of perception, or you never are actually yourself but witness your dream self doing stuff, but from a philosophical point of view, the qualia, or what-it-is-like-to-be bit to everything, is the same in dreams as it is when you are awake.

I think that most philosophers would argue that it is wrong for people to completely dismiss their experiences in dreams as not as valuable as the experiences we have in the external reality, but stepping away from the nitty gritty super logical world of philosophy, the lack of empirical third person perspective in dreams compared to that of our experiences in the social external world, renders dreams less significant on a practical level.

Death is a funny area, because we can't step out of deathly experiences to step back into this current life, like we step in and out of dreams, so the closest you'll ever get to assessing the value of the "death experience" would be to talk to people who have had NDEs. And for most of those people, NDEs have profound and incredibly significant effects on how they live the rest of this current life.

[SquaredCircle]

(Original post by JustCharley)
When you are dreaming, you don't identify what you are perceiving as just subconscious thoughts. This is because dreaming has the same phenomenological effects on our experience or perception, as external reality does. So you could argue, that when we are dreaming we value it just as much as our perception of external reality, because you can't tell the difference until you wake up. I know that some people sometimes always dream with a certain decorative border around their frame of perception, or you never are actually yourself but witness your dream self doing stuff, but from a philosophical point of view, the qualia, or what-it-is-like-to-be bit to everything, is the same in dreams as it is when you are awake.

I think that most philosophers would argue that it is wrong for people to completely dismiss their experiences in dreams as not as valuable as the experiences we have in the external reality, but stepping away from the nitty gritty super logical world of philosophy, the lack of empirical third person perspective in dreams compared to that of our experiences in the social external world, renders dreams less significant on a practical level.

Death is a funny area, because we can't step out of deathly experiences to step back into this current life, like we step in and out of dreams, so the closest you'll ever get to assessing the value of the "death experience" would be to talk to people who have had NDEs. And for most of those people, NDEs have profound and incredibly significant effects on how they live the rest of this current life.

Third party perspective in your dreams would confirm that your dream was real.

[Perdiccas]

Dreams are often very important parts of our brain's work. They are a way for the brain to sort itself out internally and deal with very nebulous, complex issues. They can often shed light on how you feel inside.

It's no coincidence that mental health professionals may discuss dreams with patients to get a handle on how they feel. It can reveal quite deep personal problems or issues. Often this is subject to interpretation of course.

As an example, my dreams are incredibly vivid, and have become more so over the last few years. I am getting close to the stage of being able to dream lucidly (i.e. being aware that I am in the dream) and it is a strange experience ... they are always strange and cryptic and full of non-sequiturs, but sometimes themes become obvious and can help you work out what's on your mind.

As for the stuff about the alternate reality ... you've been watching too much of the Matrix. Granted, dreams are not well understood by neuroscientists, but this does not mean that there is something macabre or supernatural about them.

I mean, they are an alternate reality in that they play on senses and provide an imagined world. Indeed, if the dream is vivid enough, one cannot distinguish it from the 'real world' - if we never woke up, then how would we know? That's what the Matrix discusses.

I don't think that's equivalent to the alternate reality that you are suggesting where we are somehow transported to a higher dimension in a far away land or whatever. The brain is still working and providing for the senses, using its memories to build that world. Blind people for example, do not see anything in their dreams (assuming blind from birth) because they have no memories or ocular input from which to build it; their dreams will focus on other senses.

By that same token, none of the brain activity observed during dreams is seen after death - there is no brain activity at all. You can't be in a dream when dead, at least not a regular one within the realms of current scientific knowledge.

But I sense this is going to go beyond the realms of what is provable, and it's going to descend into a pointless discussion that has no answers or redeeming merit. I have offered some cursory scientific insight ... it's about the best I can do for hard evidence. As I said, how and why dreams happen is not fully understood.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

I've often thought that when you have a dream that seems so real does it count as a legitimate experience.