[CHEM_sucks]

There are different types of muslims yes, such as sunni, shiya sufi etc.. We believe in the same things Allah, the Qu'ran, 5 pillars, prophets...

[CHEM_sucks]

As muslims if we see something as an amiss we are supposed to find out why, by asking someone who is educated about islam like a scholar.

Personally I'm still young and I have a lot to learn about my religion.. Which is why am attending an islamic course! Should be able to translate Qu'ran after about 6 years, I think. Lol

But the thing is it's not only muslims who do this is it? Because I'm sure if you go up to a hindu and ask something contradictory about one of their gods, they'd be offended?

We believe everything said in the Qu'ran has been said by Allah (God)

[CHEM_sucks]

I've also seen recently that whenever a crime is committed religion suddenly comes up! Is there any need for that?

And terrorism, aren't muslims the ones who get given that title?

[Pinkhead]

(Original post by CHEM_sucks)
As muslims if we see something as an amiss we are supposed to find out why, by asking someone who is educated about islam like a scholar.

Personally I'm still young and I have a lot to learn about my religion.. Which is why am attending an islamic course! Should be able to translate Qu'ran after about 6 years, I think. Lol

But the thing is it's not only muslims who do this is it? Because I'm sure if you go up to a hindu and ask something contradictory about one of their gods, they'd be offended?

We believe everything said in the Qu'ran has been said by Allah (God)

Yes, of course a lot of people, regardless of their religion, are offended by an opposing statement.
However, that is not a valid excuse. The thread is about muslims holding a double standard, not about Hindus or Christians, etc. There's no point in saying 'oh others do it too' because that does not provide an excuse for Islam. You can make a thread about Hindus on this topic if you wish and likewise, it would be silly for them to say 'other religions do it too'.

I'm not saying Islam does or does not hold a double standard, but I am simply saying that what you said is not a valid answer.

I've also seen recently that whenever a crime is committed religion suddenly comes up! Is there any need for that?

What do you mean by this? Can you elaborate please?

[CHEM_sucks]

why do muslims not get an 'excuse'?! I was just stating if someone felt very religious, had a strong faith in their religion and stand by everything it says, then it's hard to accept criticism. As muslims, we are supposed to find out as much as we can about our religion from islamic scholars, and I trust them. Do u understand why we get offended?

As muslims we do so much during our daily lives to remind ourselves of God/Allah.. E.g. 5 prayers daily.
There are certain times of the day and year (ramadhan) which we believe that Allah is very mercyful, forgiving. Do u understand? We have a strong connection with our lord.

Hope you understand, if not ask.

And why does religion play a part when someone commits a crime? I don't think it should.. Because as far as I'm aware islam doesn't teach us to commit any crimes.. Infact the total opposite! May people get different views off the internet or the wrong people.. I don't think it's down to religion.

[Pinkhead]

(Original post by CHEM_sucks)
why do muslims not get an 'excuse'?! I was just stating if someone felt very religious, had a strong faith in their religion and stand by everything it says, then it's hard to accept criticism. As muslims, we are supposed to find out as much as we can about our religion from islamic scholars, and I trust them. Do u understand why we get offended?

As muslims we do so much during our daily lives to remind ourselves of God/Allah.. E.g. 5 prayers daily.
There are certain times of the day and year (ramadhan) which we believe that Allah is very mercyful, forgiving. Do u understand? We have a strong connection with our lord.

Hope you understand, if not ask.

And why does religion play a part when someone commits a crime? I don't think it should.. Because as far as I'm aware islam doesn't teach us to commit any crimes.. Infact the total opposite! May people get different views off the internet or the wrong people.. I don't think it's down to religion.

You would be right in a normal situation, however we are not just discussing criticisms.
You are not considering the other half of the obvious double standard.
You just enforced it yourself when you said this:
'why does religion play a part when someone commits a crime'
You have just said that bad things are not due solely to religion in your post. Ok, I agree with you. It is not solely due to the religion. People have faults of their own which are not due to their belief in Islam.

HOWEVER, where people go wrong is when they then say that something good that happens to a muslim (I'll use muslims as an example although other religions are guilty of this too) is due to the religion.
The OP mentioned that scientific achievements made by muslims are often credited towards Islam and that these achievements are due to the person being a follower of Islam.

So why is it then that when something bad happens, it is not due to the person being a muslim, but when something good happens, Islam is praised?
I think that was what the OP was getting at.

Do you understand?

[Pinkhead]

Sorry for the double post, but could you quote the person you are replying to next time? I don't know if you've made a reply unless I am quoted.

[Spaz Man]

It's because the things you describe (sexual abuse, terrorism etc) are clearly forbidden in Islam yet are carried out by so called Muslims who sometimes use try and use Islam to justify actions they know are clearly wrong, thus severely weakening their credibility and plausibility.

[laurennmc]

religious discussions become so controversial.

[Safx]

Well the simple way to look at this is...
If you really believed in something, why would you want to accept critisisms? Wouldn't you defend it as much as you could.

When it comes to crimes, Islam isn't blamed because it teaches NOT to do these things... Individual Muslims are not perfect and their faults automatically become associated with somehow being related to their religious teaching.

[Clare~Bear]

I think a good analogy is Andy Murray. When he does well, he's british (ie the majority of Britain wants him), when he does badly, he's Scottish (ie he's rejected to a minority part of Britain).

[CHEM_sucks]

(Original post by Pinkhead)
You would be right in a normal situation, however we are not just discussing criticisms.
You are not considering the other half of the obvious double standard.
You just enforced it yourself when you said this:
'why does religion play a part when someone commits a crime'
You have just said that bad things are not due solely to religion in your post. Ok, I agree with you. It is not solely due to the religion. People have faults of their own which are not due to their belief in Islam.

HOWEVER, where people go wrong is when they then say that something good that happens to a muslim (I'll use muslims as an example although other religions are guilty of this too) is due to the religion.
The OP mentioned that scientific achievements made by muslims are often credited towards Islam and that these achievements are due to the person being a follower of Islam.

So why is it then that when something bad happens, it is not due to the person being a muslim, but when something good happens, Islam is praised?
I think that was what the OP was getting at.

Do you understand?

I don't know I assume its because we believe Allah played a part in achievements, like he has answered our prayers.. If you get me?
I don't think islam should be praised. If a person achieves something.. They themselves should be praised.

However I have never seen this before.. Have you? If so please give me an example? I haven't seen islam being praised wwhen a muslim achieves something, unless it directly has something to do our faith? I presume?

And yes, for future replies I will

[Pinkhead]

(Original post by CHEM_sucks)
I don't know I assume its because we believe Allah played a part in achievements, like he has answered our prayers.. If you get me?
I don't think islam should be praised. If a person achieves something.. They themselves should be praised.

However I have never seen this before.. Have you? If so please give me an example? I haven't seen islam being praised wwhen a muslim achieves something, unless it directly has something to do our faith? I presume?

And yes, for future replies I will

I was making my argument from the OP's experience:

'Conversely many muslims will at the same attempt to apply credit to islam for various what they describe as 'achievments' in for example science such as the 'islamic golden age; and imbue some islamic characteristic to those works ( presumably becuase some people involved may have been muslim)'
'I have jsut been on a thread when a muslim guy tried to pretend mathematics and algerbra was invented by a muslim - apart form making me laugh, it made me wonder who tuaght him that idea and then implanted in his head even if it were actually true , why it was an 'islamic' achievment.'

Not sure if that is all true, but my I was operating under the assumption that it was. Probably not a wise choice by me...

[Tycho]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
I think a good analogy is Andy Murray. When he does well, he's british, when he does bad, he's Scottish.

badly*

[CHEM_sucks]

(Original post by Pinkhead)
I was making my argument from the OP's experience:

'Conversely many muslims will at the same attempt to apply credit to islam for various what they describe as 'achievments' in for example science such as the 'islamic golden age; and imbue some islamic characteristic to those works ( presumably becuase some people involved may have been muslim)'
'I have jsut been on a thread when a muslim guy tried to pretend mathematics and algerbra was invented by a muslim - apart form making me laugh, it made me wonder who tuaght him that idea and then implanted in his head even if it were actually true , why it was an 'islamic' achievment.'

Not sure if that is all true, but my I was operating under the assumption that it was. Probably not a wise choice by me...

I haven't seen that thread, I don't really agree with it either, as there is no evidence.. I believe everything should be backed by evidence before people step on the high horses lol. I don't agree with that. And whoever did create mathematics and algebra, should be getting the credit, not their religion.. Islam or not.

That's my point of view. Others may disagree..

[Pinkhead]

(Original post by CHEM_sucks)
I haven't seen that thread, I don't really agree with it either, as there is no evidence.. I believe everything should be backed by evidence before people step on the high horses lol. I don't agree with that. And whoever did create mathematics and algebra, should be getting the credit, not their religion.. Islam or not.

That's my point of view. Others may disagree..

Just wondering, do you have any evidence to support your belief in the teachings of Islam? What might this be?

[CHEM_sucks]

(Original post by Pinkhead)
Just wondering, do you have any evidence to support your belief in the teachings of Islam? What might this be?

Not on the top of my head, lol sorry. I can try to get you examples? Later on though.. Because I'm getting of this thread I need to revise for my chemistry exam.. Can u inbox me? I won't mind, ask whatever you like... If I don't know the answer I shall try to find out for you

[Pinkhead]

(Original post by CHEM_sucks)
Not on the top of my head, lol sorry. I can try to get you examples? Later on though.. Because I'm getting of this thread I need to revise for my chemistry exam.. Can u inbox me? I won't mind, ask whatever you like... If I don't know the answer I shall try to find out for you

Ok, I'll PM you if i can remember to.
Good luck!

[CHEM_sucks]

(Original post by Pinkhead)
Ok, I'll PM you if i can remember to.
Good luck!

OK!! and thank you very much!! I'll need it lol

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by CHEM_sucks)
why do muslims not get an 'excuse'?! I was just stating if someone felt very religious, had a strong faith in their religion and stand by everything it says, then it's hard to accept criticism. As muslims, we are supposed to find out as much as we can about our religion from islamic scholars, and I trust them. Do u understand why we get offended?

As muslims we do so much during our daily lives to remind ourselves of God/Allah.. E.g. 5 prayers daily.
There are certain times of the day and year (ramadhan) which we believe that Allah is very mercyful, forgiving. Do u understand? We have a strong connection with our lord.

Hope you understand, if not ask.

And why does religion play a part when someone commits a crime? I don't think it should.. Because as far as I'm aware islam doesn't teach us to commit any crimes.. Infact the total opposite! May people get different views off the internet or the wrong people.. I don't think it's down to religion.

That isnt really the point that has been asserted - what is 'right ' and 'wrong' is largely down to contemporary moral viewpoint. When muslims practiced islam in mohammds time , slavery was encouraged, as was taking female concubines from conquered non muslim populations - this is all documented in islamic record (hadeeth) as acceptable islamic practice. But a i have yet to read a muslim critisise muslims that followed these islamic practices.