[Average Joe 1992]

Hi, i have a question,

I am aware that a Muslim man can marry a non-muslim women (ie people of the book - jews/christians). However, i would like to know is it just strictly women from judaism and christianity, what if you want to marry someone who is of no faith ie an athiest? and a follow up question, once you marry a non-muslim women, is it compulsory to convert her into a muslim (eg instantaneously before marriage or during the marriage, however long it may take)? or can she remain practicing her own religion or non-religion for that matter?

thank you, i really appreciate your answers

[Gibbers]

Hmmm no-ones replied to your question, that's kinda sad, I'll give it a go. I'm not a Muslim myself, and what I understand is based off a rather strict interpretation of marriage in Islam (my mother is a muslim).

That being that a Muslim man cannot marry an atheist, but, as you said is allowed to marry a Jew/Christian woman. However, it is widely looked down upon as one of the major roles in Islam is to pass down the faith (it's one of the ways you receive blessings after death), this can be done through teaching, however for most it would be passing the faith down to their children. It goes without saying that matrimony with a non-muslim would make such a duty quite difficult and possibly be a source of friction in the marriage itself. However, there is nothing stopping the woman from practicing her faith, it just is seen as making divorce an inevitability. And, as I'm sure you know, divorce isn't too great in Islam either.

Again, your question of whether marrying an atheist is permissible is, with pretty much all matters in Islam, open to interpretation. Some scholars would say it's cool, others would say it's not. And I know that's a kind of lame thing for me to give as an answer as you want a yes/no but really it depends on which Muslim Imam you go to see.

Hopefully that helps you out in one way or another. And if I'm wrong anywhere I'm sure a more knowledgeable member will correct me.

[teensoton]

It is not strictly compulsory to convert the woman but the man will be pressured to convert his non-muslim wife to islam by his muslim family members. Even in the courtship face, the woman will be made aware about the need to convert. Marriage will be almost impossible if she is against the idea. That is it in a nutshell really.


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[tpxvs]

This saddens me. Why cant we all just marry whoever we want to? Should the religion you're "born" into stop you from being with who you want to? I'm not religious myself and i dont see why religion/race etc should matter - if i like someone, i like them. Simple. Also what about if you never got married but spent the rest of your life with them?

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by Average Joe 1992)
Hi, i have a question,

I am aware that a Muslim man can marry a non-muslim women (ie people of the book - jews/christians). However, i would like to know is it just strictly women from judaism and christianity, what if you want to marry someone who is of no faith ie an athiest? and a follow up question, once you marry a non-muslim women, is it compulsory to convert her into a muslim (eg instantaneously before marriage or during the marriage, however long it may take)? or can she remain practicing her own religion or non-religion for that matter?

thank you, i really appreciate your answers

For Muslim men to marry people from the book which has specific conditions, such a the children being raised as Muslims and the women being a proper follower of their own faith, so they can't be a Jew or Christian by name .
And no they can't marry an atheist.

And they can keep to their faith, but they should be practicing.

[teensoton]

We can argue that this is wrong but this is the same case in any religion. Religious people don't tend to marry outside their religion. Muslims are just very blunt and transparent about it.


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[Perseveranze]

No, you cannot marry an Atheist or a Pagan or whatever. Only a Christian or Jew, and the reason is due to the similarities between the religions (abrahamic faiths), where your more likely to get along (due to common beliefs) rather than if you married a Atheist or a Pagan.

And no, you don't have to convert her. It would be good if she did convert (last thing you want is having to say goodbye at the crossroads), but it's not compulsory.

(Original post by tpxvs)
This saddens me. Why cant we all just marry whoever we want to? Should the religion you're "born" into stop you from being with who you want to? I'm not religious myself and i dont see why religion/race etc should matter - if i like someone, i like them. Simple. Also what about if you never got married but spent the rest of your life with them?

That would imply zina, and it isn't allowed. Outside marriage, unless for a good reason, you shouldn't interact with the opposite gender.

And race/nationality doesn't matter, these things aren't judged. Religion however is, and you need to understand that Muslims in general hold the afterlife to greater importance than the material world.

[tazarooni89]

If you take a purely literal interpretation of the Qur'an (whether you should do so is arguable, but anyway...) then on the basis of religion, a Muslim man or woman is only prohibited from marrying a person who is a Mushrik (which means "polytheist", or more specifically one who commits the sin of Shirk). This is based on the following verse in the Qur'an:

(Original post by Qur'an 2:221)
And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember.

I don't know of any other verse which explicitly prohibits a Muslim from marrying anyone else due to their religious beliefs, or lack of religious beliefs - though I'm happy to be corrected on this.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by tazarooni89)
I don't know of any other verse which explicitly prohibits a Muslim from marrying anyone else due to their religious beliefs, or lack of religious beliefs - though I'm happy to be corrected on this.

It's here -

“Made lawful to you this day are At‑Tayyibaat [all kinds of Halaal (lawful) foods, which Allaah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits)]. The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girlfriends” [al-Maa'idah 5:4]

And the commentry;

Spoiler:

Show

Imam al-Tabari said in his commentary on this verse:

“chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture” means, free woman among those whom have been given the Scripture, namely the Jews and Christians who believe in what is in the Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel) from among the people who came before you, O believers in Muhammad, whether from among the Arabs or other people; you are permitted to marry them “when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage)” which means, if you give to those whom you marry of your (Muslims’) chaste women and their (Jews’ and Christians’) chaste women their mahrs or dowries.”

(Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 6/104)

[tpxvs]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
That would imply zina, and it isn't allowed. Outside marriage, unless for a good reason, you shouldn't interact with the opposite gender.

And race/nationality doesn't matter, these things aren't judged. Religion however is, and you need to understand that Muslims in general hold the afterlife to greater importance than the material world.

What do you mean isnt allowed? What happens if a muslim does interact with the opposite gender? For example, they move in together and spend the rest of their lives with eachother - why/how is this wrong?

Are young people in this day and age genuinely still so strongly religious? and i mean without any of this coming from their parents/family. I can totally understand people wanting to stay chaste till they get married. But not being able to "interact" with the opposite sex? not being able to even try a bit of alcohol (im not a big drinker myself, just is there no curiosity?) Do young muslims in this country not take part in the "British youth culture" because of absolutely being against it and not wanting to or is it mainly pressure/values from family?

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
It's here -

“Made lawful to you this day are At‑Tayyibaat [all kinds of Halaal (lawful) foods, which Allaah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits)]. The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girlfriends” [al-Maa'idah 5:4]

And the commentry;

Spoiler:

Show

Imam al-Tabari said in his commentary on this verse:

“chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture” means, free woman among those whom have been given the Scripture, namely the Jews and Christians who believe in what is in the Tawraat (Torah) and Injeel (Gospel) from among the people who came before you, O believers in Muhammad, whether from among the Arabs or other people; you are permitted to marry them “when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage)” which means, if you give to those whom you marry of your (Muslims’) chaste women and their (Jews’ and Christians’) chaste women their mahrs or dowries.”

(Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 6/104)

I think you've misunderstood what I said. I know that this verse says Muslim men can marry Jews and Christians.
I said that I don't know of any other verse which explicitly prohibits a Muslim from marrying anyone else doe to their religious beliefs - i.e. a verse which says "You can't" marry people who believe XYZ". The one you have provided is one which says "You can marry people who believe XYZ".

One has to remember that saying "You may marry people who believe XYZ" is not equivalent to saying "You may only marry people who believe XYZ".

[SquaredCircle]

(Original post by tpxvs)
This saddens me. Why cant we all just marry whoever we want to? Should the religion you're "born" into stop you from being with who you want to? I'm not religious myself and i dont see why religion/race etc should matter - if i like someone, i like them. Simple. Also what about if you never got married but spent the rest of your life with them?

I know of a lot of boys born into Muslim households who had awful awful break ups with the girls they loved because of Islamic parents. It makes me genuinely angry and I hope that Islam becomes watered down and sensible like christianity.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by tpxvs)
What do you mean isnt allowed? What happens if a muslim does interact with the opposite gender? For example, they move in together and spend the rest of their lives with eachother - why/how is this wrong?

Because this is Zina (fornication). And if one was to draw up a ranking of sins, then Fornication would be pretty high up that list. You could reconcile the matter by;

- Marrying them (provided they are jew/christian/Muslim), if not cut ties.
- Asking them to convert, if not then to cut ties.

This is probably why interaction between opposite genders should be kept to a minimum. It's to avoid some Hollywood scene that involves the person doing something as stupid as you describe.

Fornication leads to unplanned pregnancies, abortions, increased chance of disease transmission (based on partners), lack of commitment etc. It really is (imo) a negative aspect of any society.

(Original post by tpxvs)
Are young people in this day and age genuinely still so strongly religious?

Thankfully that's what it seems. Can read the following for reference;

Conflict, theology and history make Muslims more religious than others

British Muslims Hold onto Faith

And there's nothing wrong with following your religion, it just makes you less of a hypocrite.

(Original post by tpxvs)
and i mean without any of this coming from their parents/family. I can totally understand people wanting to stay chaste till they get married. But not being able to "interact" with the opposite sex? not being able to even try a bit of alcohol (im not a big drinker myself, just is there no curiosity?) Do young muslims in this country not take part in the "British youth culture" because of absolutely being against it and not wanting to or is it mainly pressure/values from family?

I never said "don't interact" because sometimes it is a necessity. Talk business otherwise keep moving (instead of flirting, chit chat etc.), it's as simple as that. Drinking alcohol "even a little" is forbidden, so it makes no sense "just to try it".

As for not taking part in "british youth culture" or "British culture", generally speaking we don' have a problem with it. However, a practicing Muslim probably won't see eye to eye in many of the things that are culturally promoted. Let us get on with our business and you can get on with yours.

And finally, i'd say around 7-14 there's parental pressure (in avoiding things that you shouldn't be doing). But from what I've noticed, once you hit 17/19+ your able to do a bit of independent thinking and this is the period where people become more religious (at least in the case of Muslims). And this is where the person would probably refuse to go with their immoral friends to a night of getting drunk, based on their own religious choice.

Hope you understand.

(Original post by SquaredCircle)
I know of a lot of boys born into Muslim households who had awful awful break ups with the girls they loved because of Islamic parents. It makes me genuinely angry and I hope that Islam becomes watered down and sensible like christianity.

Lol, I'm sure some of them saw sense. Hardly any of these relationships (parents aside) survive due to the differences. If it doesn't hit them then, it hits them in the future (which I find it usually the case), so most probably end up thanking their parents.

[tpxvs]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Hope you understand.

^Thanks for explaining . Theres a lot I personally disagree with and some I quite like the sound of ..but I wont go preaching, we're all entitled to our own views and opinions!

(Original post by SquaredCircle)
I know of a lot of boys born into Muslim households who had awful awful break ups with the girls they loved because of Islamic parents. It makes me genuinely angry and I hope that Islam becomes watered down and sensible like christianity.

Hmm.. I just wish everyone was able to have the freedom where you can get with whoever you want Fair enough not sleeping around - I think thats one good thing about religious people over atheists/agnostics.. but as iv just found out from reading this thread, **** hits the fan if a muslim falls in love with anyone thats not muslim/christian/jew :/ To be honest, I dont even think i know for sure 90%+ of my friends religions! I mean i could make the assumption by looking at them.. but i cant be 100% certain. If i like someone, i like someone i dont really think about religion!! As a non-muslim, non-christian/jew.. I would hate to fall in love with my "perfect guy" only to find out that hes muslim and therefore cant be with me :s Id think in some ways (though i respect good relations with the family) this is pretty immature.. Surely you should be able to think on your own two feet! I would also quite frankly be appalled if somebody tried to convert me! Im not religious and thats my choice, I wont pretend to believe in faith :s likewise, id never ask anybody else to either!

[Average Joe 1992]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
No, you cannot marry an Atheist or a Pagan or whatever. Only a Christian or Jew, and the reason is due to the similarities between the religions (abrahamic faiths), where your more likely to get along (due to common beliefs) rather than if you married a Atheist or a Pagan.

And no, you don't have to convert her. It would be good if she did convert (last thing you want is having to say goodbye at the crossroads), but it's not compulsory.



That would imply zina, and it isn't allowed. Outside marriage, unless for a good reason, you shouldn't interact with the opposite gender.

And race/nationality doesn't matter, these things aren't judged. Religion however is, and you need to understand that Muslims in general hold the afterlife to greater importance than the material world.

thank you for the reply, so what if I marry an athiest, and she says that she would consider converting into Islam but not right away, and that it will take her time (say, a few years) to look into the religion etc. in this case can a muslim man marry an athiest?

[Carter78]

A lecturer at my University wanted to marry his Iranian wife and needed to convert to Islam in order to obtain a travel visa to visit the country (and for the marriage to be recognised in Iran).

I have another point to make though, why can a Muslim man marry four wives, yet a Muslim woman cannot marry four men?

[Rat_Bag]

(Original post by tpxvs)
Fair enough not sleeping around - I think thats one good thing about religious people over atheists/agnostics..

Erm, some religious people sleep around too, they just do it very covertly and discretely and keep quiet about it. And some atheists/agnostics don't sleep around. Generalisations are not very helpful here.

And is there anything wrong with having sex with your partner when not married?

[Rat_Bag]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
No, you cannot marry an Atheist or a Pagan or whatever. Only a Christian or Jew, and the reason is due to the similarities between the religions (abrahamic faiths), where your more likely to get along (due to common beliefs) rather than if you married a Atheist or a Pagan.

It's a pity that notions of segregation and apartheid between religions are still not only observed, but actually believed to be good.

[Carter78]

(Original post by Rat_Bag)
Erm, some religious people sleep around too, they just do it very covertly and discretely and keep quiet about it. And some atheists/agnostics don't sleep around. Generalisations are not very helpful here.

And is there anything wrong with having sex with your partner when not married?

Absolutely true. Can I accuse the devoutly religious Saudi Princes of sleeping around because they have dozens of wives/consorts?

[tpxvs]

(Original post by Rat_Bag)
Erm, some religious people sleep around too, they just do it very covertly and discretely and keep quiet about it.

Chill. You've totally misinterpreted what I meant. I didnt say religious people don't sleep around.. I have plenty of friends that do and one or two are very religious - as in dad is a priest etc. She openly has sex now though and her parents know yet she claims to be religious. I just dont get involved/pay any attention as its none of my business.

(Original post by Rat_Bag)
And some atheists/agnostics don't sleep around. Generalisations are not very helpful here.

And is there anything wrong with having sex with your partner when not married?

I know. I am agnostic. I don't sleep around.
Did I say there was?