[fredster3600]

Hi, sorry if this is a stupid question but I was wondering why most universities require you to have done A level maths to be able to study economics. I enjoy economics and have just finished my AS levels where I did my AQA economics exam. As far as I'm aware the only maths involved in that was to do with elasticities. Of course I am aware that University Economics could become a lot more maths based, does it?

Also on a side note has anyone done Economics and Politics combined, as I feel I may need to do that to be able to study economics ... But still most Uni's websites I have visited stated that they still want A level maths to do Eco+Pol, or at least an A at GCSE for maths (I got a B )

[The Doggfather]

BSc Economics is quite heavy on Maths. Certainly at top universities like LSE. In their first year they have a matrix algebra unit, which has Further Pure 3 Maths matrices.

[Tateco]

Because that is how its taught

[The Hedonist]

You could consider PPE - I don't think many universities require maths A level for that

[placenta medicae talpae]

At A Level, economics is all like essays and things.
In the real world, econ is not like that at all.

How do governments come up with economic projections and forecasts?
There's a lot of stats in there, and a lot of plain maths too.
In fact, there's a whole field which I study, called 'mathematical economics', which looks at things like decision theory and game theory.

[Tahooper]

(Original post by The Doggfather)
Not just Maths

Further Maths too if you want to study at a top uni!

Don't listen to this, OP.

You don't need FM to study Economics at a top university.

[dugdugdug]

(Original post by fredster3600)
Hi, sorry if this is a stupid question but I was wondering why most universities require you to have done A level maths to be able to study economics. I enjoy economics and have just finished my AS levels where I did my AQA economics exam. As far as I'm aware the only maths involved in that was to do with elasticities. Of course I am aware that University Economics could become a lot more maths based, does it?

Also on a side note has anyone done Economics and Politics combined, as I feel I may need to do that to be able to study economics ... But still most Uni's websites I have visited stated that they still want A level maths to do Eco+Pol, or at least an A at GCSE for maths (I got a B )

I recall the days when studying Simple Harmonic Motion in Physics A-Level, one would need to solve differential equations. Later, a topic called Kirchoff's Laws was removed from the syllabus because it was deemed too difficult to solve three simultaneous equations.

There are a lot of A-Level students of late studying what I would class as "unrelated" subject combinations such as Maths, Biology and History as opposed to standard Maths, Physics and Chemistry or English, History and Latin.

As a consequence, ones sees a lot of students enjoying A-Level Physics but not maths, yet blindly choose to pursue a Physics degree, not realising the vast maths content, at least at the top universities. Even Computing demands strong A-Level maths, one would expect to struggle or even fail at a place like Imperial where emphasis is placed on rigorous proofs.

To answer your question, maths is the common language that binds everything. In order to make progress, mastery of it is unavoidable, rather like proofs, which I agree, is not to everyone's tastes but is necessary.

Perhaps the levels of maths required these days for an Economics degree has changed but if possible, try to get hold of a book called "A Mathematical Treatment Of Economics" by Archibald and Lipsey to get a feel of what you might be encountering.

It goes far beyond elasticities, covering cobweb theory (this has links to Chaos Theory and difference equations, the discrete version of differential equations), matrix algebra and PDEs (partial differentiation), which was in the old A-Levels.

[azzi282]

Is Further Maths necessary to get into reasonable unis for economics? Non of the websites seem to suggest FM is required but everyones always telling me that FM and economics is a must to get into a uni like LSE or Oxford etc?

I know economics requires alot of maths for theorys etc but still?

[helllomoto]

Not only is maths used in calculations, forecasts, etc. But it's also a good indicator of your ability to think clearly and logically - which is useful in economics.

[henriksebastian]

My highschool course (not A-level, but the more demanding I.B. counterpart which I took in Higher Level) also made me interested in Economics...

I've already made my course choice. But YOU, PLEASE, PLEASE be aware of the math involved.
Invest in a Basic Econometrics book and get a gooood look and a good idea of it.

You'll se a lot of CALCULUS as in integration (thus the graphs!) and optimization. You'd also study statistics and what is called "linear regression".

[Wa 007]

you need further maths for a top uni, sorry

Why are you negging me just because i'm telling the truth, each top university says that further maths is highly desirable, whoever negs is so ignorant aha

[Budgie]

(Original post by fredster3600)
Hi, sorry if this is a stupid question but I was wondering why most universities require you to have done A level maths to be able to study economics. I enjoy economics and have just finished my AS levels where I did my AQA economics exam. As far as I'm aware the only maths involved in that was to do with elasticities. Of course I am aware that University Economics could become a lot more maths based, does it?

Economics at university is very different from economics at A-level. It is a lot more formal. Everything you study starts with the building of a mathematical model, which you use mathematical techniques to analyse. If I recall correctly (although I only did AS-level economics), the concept of utility, which is really the foundation of choice theory and economics, is not introduced. But at university level, most things start with analysing a consumer's utility function, which then must be maximised subject to some constraints. This is a mathematical problem.

For example, you might use optimisation techniques to answer the questions:
"What bundle should a consumer choose to maximise his utility subject to his budget constraint?"
"What inputs should a firm choose to minimise its cost subject to producing amount x?"
"How should an owner write a contract that incentivises his employee to work hard, despite the fact that the owner cannot observe the employee's efforts?"


You might use integrals to answer the question:
"How does the consumer's surplus from this transaction vary with price?"

You might use differential equations in macroeconomics to answer:
"Does this economic system converge to a steady-state?"

Then, of course, there is the whole branch of econometrics, which prima facie is closest to the statistics component of maths A-level.

If you want to get an idea for the mathematical level, I would take a look at Varian's Intermediate Microeconomics (make sure you don't look at his Microeconomic Analysis as that is a graduate textbook and a lot more formal).

[.ACS.]

(Original post by fredster3600)
Hi, sorry if this is a stupid question but I was wondering why most universities require you to have done A level maths to be able to study economics. I enjoy economics and have just finished my AS levels where I did my AQA economics exam. As far as I'm aware the only maths involved in that was to do with elasticities. Of course I am aware that University Economics could become a lot more maths based, does it?

Also on a side note has anyone done Economics and Politics combined, as I feel I may need to do that to be able to study economics ... But still most Uni's websites I have visited stated that they still want A level maths to do Eco+Pol, or at least an A at GCSE for maths (I got a B )

The issue is, economics as a discipline at A-Level is nothing like its university counterpart. At A-Level, economics is very discursive and requires you to write essays, and dare I say involves a bit of normativeness and politics. At university, however, economics really does become a 'science' and is empirical based; that is to say, you study a whole host of abstract economic models, look at how changes in certain variables affect the outcomes of the model, and then use econometrics to analyse whether or not the model is reflective of reality.

The most important mathematical tool in economics is optimization, as constantly you are trying to minimize costs subject to some constraint or maximise profits subject to some constraint. Further, game theory becomes quite technical when dealing with oligopolies and firm behaviour in uncertainty (asymmetric information), especially when you come onto Pure Bayes Nash Equilibrium, which in addition makes extensive use of probability theory.

Otherwise, econometrics, or statistics, is vital. Hence you will need to have a solid working knowledge of calculus, linear algebra, and probability theory.

[screenager2004]

Because lots of people like to believe that the infinite and subjective complexity of human competition, risk and sense of value can be reduced down to little numbers.

[Zenomorph]

(Original post by placenta medicae talpae)
At A Level, economics is all like essays and things.
In the real world, econ is not like that at all.

How do governments come up with economic projections and forecasts?
There's a lot of stats in there, and a lot of plain maths too.
In fact, there's a whole field which I study, called 'mathematical economics', which looks at things like decision theory and game theory.

But a lot of the applicative math models for economics are simply not realistic nor are they up to date.

Tell me what are the examples of uncooperative games, some inane Jack and Jill example ? Why use some real world examples like from the fighting sports ?

Cause let's face it , most academics know jack about real world economics o/w they wouldn't be in a university - they'd be chief economist @ GS.

Lot of the maths is chucked in to make it look good. i'm not vs maths in economics but I am when it distorts the subject to something unreal and inapplicable.

[Zürich]

(Original post by fredster3600)
Hi, sorry if this is a stupid question but I was wondering why most universities require you to have done A level maths to be able to study economics. I enjoy economics and have just finished my AS levels where I did my AQA economics exam. As far as I'm aware the only maths involved in that was to do with elasticities. Of course I am aware that University Economics could become a lot more maths based, does it?

Also on a side note has anyone done Economics and Politics combined, as I feel I may need to do that to be able to study economics ... But still most Uni's websites I have visited stated that they still want A level maths to do Eco+Pol, or at least an A at GCSE for maths (I got a B )

Economics at a high level requires a level of precision that can only be achieved through Mathematics. At BSc level, you don't write essays.

[.ACS.]

(Original post by screenager2004)
Because lots of people like to believe that the infinite and subjective complexity of human competition, risk and sense of value can be reduced down to little numbers.

That's a bit over-simplistic.

[.ACS.]

(Original post by Zenomorph)
But a lot of the applicative math models for economics are simply not realistic nor are they up to date.

Tell me what are the examples of uncooperative games, some inane Jack and Jill example ? Why use some real world examples like from the fighting sports ?

Cause let's face it , most academics know jack about real world economics o/w they wouldn't be in a university - they'd be chief economist @ GS.

Lot of the maths is chucked in to make it look good. i'm not vs maths in economics but I am when it distorts the subject to something unreal and inapplicable.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[onda]

economics is all about relationships e.g. seller/buyer, market/stock etc maths makes it easier to work with this complex relationship

[.ACS.]

(Original post by dugdugdug)
As a consequence, ones sees a lot of students enjoying A-Level Physics but not maths, yet blindly choose to pursue a Physics degree, not realising the vast maths content, at least at the top universities. Even Computing demands strong A-Level maths, one would expect to struggle or even fail at a place like Imperial where emphasis is placed on rigorous proofs.

I may be mistaken, but doesn't pretty much every BSc Physics programme require A-Level Maths?

(Original post by dugdugdug)
Perhaps the levels of maths required these days for an Economics degree has changed but if possible, try to get hold of a book called "A Mathematical Treatment Of Economics" by Archibald and Lipsey to get a feel of what you might be encountering.

It goes far beyond elasticities, covering cobweb theory (this has links to Chaos Theory and difference equations, the discrete version of differential equations), matrix algebra and PDEs (partial differentiation), which was in the old A-Levels.

Economics at university is still a mathematical discipline, and very rigorous and proof based at the top universities. Extensive use of calculus is used as well as linear algebra and probability theory.

Regarding a book, however, I'd argue that A Mathematical Treatment Of Economics is a bit outdated, but also quite a poor reference. (From reviews I've read in the Journal of Economics at least, it's a horrendous book apparently.) A standard reference is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mathematics-...2268593&sr=1-1 by Simon and Blume, even if a bit outdated. Otherwise http://www.amazon.co.uk/Essential-Ma..._bxgy_b_text_b and http://www.amazon.co.uk/Further-Math...ef=pd_sim_b_16 are good modern alternatives.

An oft-mentioned modern alternative to the Archibald text is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fundamental-...ref=pd_sim_b_1.