[FrightBright]

I am used to seeing people go out of there way in reiterating how religious people are gullible, ignorant and brainwashed.

Does religion have no place in modern society? Are we too educated? Do we have all the answers? Have we evolved into such intelligent apes?

To think that we are smarter than our ancestors who were very religious is just plain arrogance.

Its human nature, one should acknowledge the impossibility of how everything came to be from nothing. Maybe god does not exist. However deciding to be straight up atheist is just unnatural, however one that deserves respect, for how you can live a life of mystery and at least not believe some theory is beyond my 'gullible' mind.

If a scientist observes something unnatural, what does he think? He thinks why? how? In an effort to understand the unknown the scientist comes up with stupid theories and dies not figuring it out... Can't this not be applied to religion? I guess you have to acknowledge the supernatural for this analogy to work

What do you 'pure atheists' (believe literally nothing) say 'invalid evidence', lets wait till scientists figure it out?

Does religion provide relief from fearing the unknown? Sure it does.. Whats so wrong with that?

So get off your high horses. Forgetting about god's existence, religion teaches good morals, healthy way to live life and has contributed greatly to society. To forget about it is like forgetting your childhood.

[Aoide]

To think that we are smarter than our ancestors who were very religious is just plain arrogance.

Except we know that we are smarter.

However deciding to be straight up atheist is just unnatural

Clearly it isn't since there are plenty of athesits and they are as natural as you are.

If a scientist observes something unnatural, what does he think? He thinks why? how? In an effort to understand the unknown the scientist comes up with stupid theories and dies not figuring it out... Can't this not be applied to religion? I guess you have to acknowledge the supernatural for this analogy to work

Or a scientist can accept there are things he/she doesn't know be content in that knowledge rather than making up stuff to fill in the blanks. Scientific theories are based on evidence and your belief that they are guesswork shows how little you understand them. They may be wrong but they at least take into account the facts that we know.

Does religion provide relief from fearing the unknown? Sure it does.. Whats so wrong with that?

Because it is pointless self deception. All you are doing is closing you eyes and pretending it will go away, without doing anything to act on the problem. This self deception will do nothing to help the problem and in the end you will still have to face it.

[py0alb]

(Original post by FrightBright)
religion teaches good morals, healthy way to live life

...except it doesn't.

[Keckers]

I don't think religious people are necessarily gullible. Perhaps hopeful is a better way to describe it.

As for religion teaching morals I don't think that is at all relevant. Good people would be good with or without religion.

[E.Blackadder]

(Original post by FrightBright)
Its human nature, one should acknowledge the impossibility of how everything came to be from nothing. Maybe god does not exist. However deciding to be straight up atheist is just unnatural, however one that deserves respect, for how you can live a life of mystery and at least not believe some theory is beyond my 'gullible' mind.

unnatural? is it straight up unnatural to not believe aliens have visited earth because of lack of evidence?

If a scientist observes something unnatural, what does he think? He thinks why? how? In an effort to understand the unknown the scientist comes up with stupid theories and dies not figuring it out... Can't this not be applied to religion? I guess you have to acknowledge the supernatural for this analogy to work

when has that happened? if a scientist observes something he can't explain he will make more observations until he can form a reasonable hypothesis. if he explained it using supernatural ideas then he would probably die thinking he knew but also not actually knowing.

What do you 'pure atheists' (believe literally nothing) say 'invalid evidence', lets wait till scientists figure it out?

what atheists believe literally nothing? if the evidence is invalid it is invalid, what more can we say?

Does religion provide relief from fearing the unknown? Sure it does.. Whats so wrong with that?

So get off your high horses. Forgetting about god's existence, religion teaches good morals, healthy way to live life and has contributed greatly to society. To forget about it is like forgetting your childhood.

religion teaches nothing that can't be taught through secular discourse and philosophy. it has also contributed atrocities to society so it isn't all peachy. there are actual reasons people have a problem with religion. we aren't just annoyed because people believe in things that probably don't exist. there are very serious and real social problems caused by religion. if you want to forget that or not acknowledge it then all i can say is that you've never escaped childhood.

[FrightBright]

(Original post by E.Blackadder)
unnatural? is it straight up unnatural to not believe aliens have visited earth because of lack of evidence?

This is a opinion, to live a life of mystery is unnatural/difficult. Especially when our time is up

Universe is infinitely large, aliens probably exist, if we exist. Doubt they landed here though

(Original post by E.Blackadder)
when has that happened? if a scientist observes something he can't explain he will make more observations until he can form a reasonable hypothesis. if he explained it using supernatural ideas then he would probably die thinking he knew but also not actually knowing.

My point here is that one tries to find answers.

(Original post by E.Blackadder)
what atheists believe literally nothing? if the evidence is invalid it is invalid, what more can we say?

Okay.

[/QUOTE]religion teaches nothing that can't be taught through secular discourse and philosophy.[/QUOTE]

Yes whats you're point there is better alternatives? Okay.

(Original post by E.Blackadder)
it has also contributed atrocities to society so it isn't all peachy. there are actual reasons people have a problem with religion. we aren't just annoyed because people believe in things that probably don't exist. there are very serious and real social problems caused by religion.

Really?

What social problems? 1/3 of the world is religious. People commit atrocities all the time, basic statistics should tell you you're going to get nutters committing crime in the name of religion.

Nothing in the world is 'peachy'. So you have to acknowledge that even if religion is abolished, these crimes will be committed just a different excuse.

Most of the problems associated with religion have nothing to do with religion.

Forced marriage, daughter killing and all that jazz you see in the developing countries where the government is religious. Is due to lack of education and other cultural nonsense.

Look at Muslims and Christians in UK. Very few are actually causing problems? You say ahhh there not religious though. Fact is they still believe something and believe in god. In my experience most Muslims are quite religious and take it seriously, they cause no problems.

(Original post by E.Blackadder)
if you want to forget that or not acknowledge it then all i can say is that you've never escaped childhood.

Cool story Bro.

Religion can be very healthy. It's not a disease. It can be a disease in the wrong hands but that goes with a lot of things.

[Swanbow]

(Original post by py0alb)
...except it doesn't.

Elaborate..

Pretty much all religions preach good morals such as helping others, being non-judgemental and trying to live a rich fulfilled life.

[FrightBright]

(Original post by Aoide)
Because it is pointless self deception. All you are doing is closing you eyes and pretending it will go away, without doing anything to act on the problem. This self deception will do nothing to help the problem and in the end you will still have to face it.

You're talking trash very FEW religious people take it so seriously that they do not put any effort into what they want. Those religious people are over the top. However sometimes closing your eyes and turning to god can be the only option, 'self deception' can be healthy.

It's like wishing good luck.

My personal belief is god rewards hard-work more than anything.

I wonder what is self deception. Maybe those trying to get AAA in there exams to be a doctor to earn cash and live a HAPPY life. Maybe that is self deception...I wonder if taking anti-depressants is self deception..

[Kiss]

(Original post by FrightBright)
I am used to seeing people go out of there way in reiterating how religious people are gullible, ignorant and brainwashed.

Does religion have no place in modern society? Are we too educated? Do we have all the answers? Have we evolved into such intelligent apes?

To think that we are smarter than our ancestors who were very religious is just plain arrogance.

Its human nature, one should acknowledge the impossibility of how everything came to be from nothing. Maybe god does not exist. However deciding to be straight up atheist is just unnatural, however one that deserves respect, for how you can live a life of mystery and at least not believe some theory is beyond my 'gullible' mind.

If a scientist observes something unnatural, what does he think? He thinks why? how? In an effort to understand the unknown the scientist comes up with stupid theories and dies not figuring it out... Can't this not be applied to religion? I guess you have to acknowledge the supernatural for this analogy to work

What do you 'pure atheists' (believe literally nothing) say 'invalid evidence', lets wait till scientists figure it out?

Does religion provide relief from fearing the unknown? Sure it does.. Whats so wrong with that?

So get off your high horses. Forgetting about god's existence, religion teaches good morals, healthy way to live life and has contributed greatly to society. To forget about it is like forgetting your childhood.

Sorry, I meant to rep

[py0alb]

(Original post by Swanbow)
Elaborate..

Pretty much all religions preach good morals such as helping others, being non-judgemental and trying to live a rich fulfilled life.

... not sure if serious...

Do you really know so little about the teachings of the various religions? The bible, for example, is one of the most fundamentally immoral books known to man. I suggest you google it if this is at all news to you.

[Swanbow]

(Original post by py0alb)
... not sure if serious...

Do you really know so little about the teachings of the various religions? The bible, for example, is one of the most fundamentally immoral books known to man. I suggest you google it if this is at all news to you.

Uh huh, but what do Christians practice in reality? Ignore the entirety of the old testament, all those quotes that people so often like to bring up when arguing against religion. The average Christian church teaches of love and compassion, and so do the majority of Muslim mosques and Jewish synagogues. And you'll find that a lot of their followers are very good people. All the charity work, and good deeds of religious people the world over go ignored because some Islamist decided to blow himself up, or because some nutjobs in America go on a homophobic rant.

[Indian_Prince]

just

[Proreginaquodterra]

"I am used to seeing people go out of there way in reiterating how religious people are gullible, ignorant and brainwashed."

I've encountered this view a lot too. Often I tend to take this view myself- but not specifically against religious persons. I think all of us have been brought up to believe things in a certain way- if you spend your entire childhood being told there is a God, you are more likely to believe it than if you've spent your entire life being told "God is a fallacy."

The way I see it, we tend to all be ignorant of other people's views and beliefs. Because if they are not our own we find it very hard to understand them. Tolerate them- yes- but understanding is something else entirely.

"Does religion have no place in modern society? Are we too educated? Do we have all the answers? Have we evolved into such intelligent apes?"

I think religion will always have a place in society as we know it. Belief is something crutial to the human mind. We all have beliefs- that killing is wrong or perhaps helping others is right. People with similar beliefs group together, and form religions. Maybe not always in the conventional "I believe in God" religious stereotype. Atheism is a religion, Humanism is too. So yes. To have a world without religion, would be to have a world without beliefs. Which wouldn't be the type of "human" world we live in now.

"To think that we are smarter than our ancestors who were very religious is just plain arrogance."

Perhaps. It's hard to say. Certainly we have history to learn from, that previous societies haven't. However the way we think, and the method of human thought could be argued as very similar- more "recent" history and philosophy isn't any less INTELLIGENT than our current ideas and ways of thinking. It is simply the origins- the first spark that had time and experience to help it grow.
I could easily argue this point either way...

"Its human nature, one should acknowledge the impossibility of how everything came to be from nothing. Maybe god does not exist. However deciding to be straight up atheist is just unnatural, however one that deserves respect, for how you can live a life of mystery and at least not believe some theory is beyond my 'gullible' mind."

Aetheism is a religion too. It's not "unnatural." To not believe in anything, is in fact a pardox. For in order to "not believe" you must hold the belief that "there's nothing worth believing in."
So I must disagree, rather strongly, with you here.


"Does religion provide relief from fearing the unknown? Sure it does.. Whats so wrong with that?"

I think there's nothing wrong with it 'let people believe what they want, it's their life, not yours,' and so on. I completely understand why people are tempted to follow set religions- it can be very hard not knowing "why" or "how" sometimes.

"So get off your high horses. Forgetting about god's existence, religion teaches good morals, healthy way to live life and has contributed greatly to society. To forget about it is like forgetting your childhood."

Not quite. Religion teaches a set of values, and a shared opinion on what is the "healthy" way of life. Religions differ in their teachings, and in the messages they portray. No one religion is all righteous... I would now insert a shower of quotes "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" etc. etc. however out of context I'd be making a poor argument.
Simply put, religions set down a bunch of so called "good" teaching and also some "bad" ones. It's up to the people who follow that religion to pick and choose how they interpret it.

[Maker]

I think religious people get sucked into religion mostly when they are young then find it very difficult to wean themselves off it because of a psychological condition called cognitive dissonance.

This is where the mind does not believe something because it conflicts with other beliefs a person has. For example, a person can see that religious dogma conflicts with facts such as babies die even though god is suppose to be merciful and protect the innocent but clearly is not but they can't accept it because that conflicts with their belief in a merciful god.

Because their beliefs and facts conflict, they construct a view where the babies that die go straight to heaven which allows them to still believe in a merciful god rather than try to address the contradiction.

To an outsider, this would seem to make the believer appear gullible but they are just reacting in a well understood psychological way.

[py0alb]

(Original post by Swanbow)
Uh huh, but what do Christians practice in reality? Ignore the entirety of the old testament, all those quotes that people so often like to bring up when arguing against religion. The average Christian church teaches of love and compassion, and so do the majority of Muslim mosques and Jewish synagogues. And you'll find that a lot of their followers are very good people. All the charity work, and good deeds of religious people the world over go ignored because some Islamist decided to blow himself up, or because some nutjobs in America go on a homophobic rant.

Irrelevent. Good people do good things all the time, whether religious or not. But by refusing to outright condemn an immoral book, all Christians are implicitly condoning its contents. To claim to be a moral Christian is in itself a direct contradiction in terms.

[Swanbow]

(Original post by py0alb)
Irrelevent. Good people do good things all the time, whether religious or not. But by refusing to outright condemn an immoral book, all Christians are implicitly condoning its contents. To claim to be a moral Christian is in itself a direct contradiction in terms.

Well agreed on the first matter, whether a person is good or not isn't directly related to his beliefs. You have to understand though that religion isn't just the Bible. Religion is a constantly evolving living thing. The teachings of the Church differ vastly to what it was in the past. In Christianity, Jesus says the two most important things are to love God and thy Neighbour, the teachings you claim immoral need not be followed. To condemn a book in it's entirety for things that are irrelevant to a follower is absurd. It's similar to condemning the British legal system as old, outdated and unfair laws still technically exist. Although to a firm believer being a moral Christian is indeed a contradiction in Europe many of the church's clergy are agnostic or atheist in places such as Sweden for example. I must add though that I really don't want to get into a religious debate and I hope that to an extent we can agree to disagree on this occasion.

[Bobifier]

(Original post by FrightBright)
To think that we are smarter than our ancestors who were very religious is just plain arrogance.

But to think that we don't know much more is just plain stupidity.

[py0alb]

(Original post by Swanbow)
Well agreed on the first matter, whether a person is good or not isn't directly related to his beliefs. You have to understand though that religion isn't just the Bible. Religion is a constantly evolving living thing. The teachings of the Church differ vastly to what it was in the past. In Christianity, Jesus says the two most important things are to love God and thy Neighbour, the teachings you claim immoral need not be followed. To condemn a book in it's entirety for things that are irrelevant to a follower is absurd. It's similar to condemning the British legal system as old, outdated and unfair laws still technically exist. Although to a firm believer being a moral Christian is indeed a contradiction in Europe many of the church's clergy are agnostic or atheist in places such as Sweden for example. I must add though that I really don't want to get into a religious debate and I hope that to an extent we can agree to disagree on this occasion.

If you take a religion, and remove all the immorality, the stupidity, the superstition, the bigotry, and the irrationality, then what you have left is atheist humanism.

[Juniorr]

why cant people just understand that everyone believes something different?! I'm an atheist and my best friend is a strong christain, we both get along fine and neither of us are 'unnatural' we just understand that we believe different things, what's so hard about that?!

[darkeneddreams]

(Original post by FrightBright)
I am used to seeing people go out of there way in reiterating how religious people are gullible, ignorant and brainwashed.

Sure, if one can presume that every single scientist is an atheist, are they? Why would people assume such things? Because people like that are an atheist, and think the sun shines out of their b**kside, and any scientist that made a good contribution to science must also be a atheist..it appears that way.

Does religion have no place in modern society? Are we too educated? Do we have all the answers? Have we evolved into such intelligent apes?

Religion has never had a 'place', in society but I believe Jesus has a place in our lives. The bible quotes 1 John 2:15 "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

To think that we are smarter than our ancestors who were very religious is just plain arrogance.

Exactly, our "ancestors" had to forage for food, getting the wrong food, or plant could meant death, therefore the average ancestor was probably more intelligent than our average family in the present day, as our food is manufactured and provided in a can. Its funny, with all the gadgets that surround us, most people think they are more intelligent than they really are.

Its human nature, one should acknowledge the impossibility of how everything came to be from nothing. Maybe god does not exist. However deciding to be straight up atheist is just unnatural, however one that deserves respect, for how you can live a life of mystery and at least not believe some theory is beyond my 'gullible' mind.

We are all gullible, we tirelessly vote for people who blindingly lead us into more turmoil, and think we all have the answers. We tend not to learn from our mistakes, intelligence, huh?

If a scientist observes something unnatural, what does he think? He thinks why? how? In an effort to understand the unknown the scientist comes up with stupid theories and dies not figuring it out... Can't this not be applied to religion? I guess you have to acknowledge the supernatural for this analogy to work

I observed my religion, judged it badly, became agnostic, realised everything is much more complicated than anti-theists make out. Call me stupid, plain human maybe? But Jesus was right in every situation, if one wishes to call a man that was never caught out fairy tales, but betrayed, then, well, try learning something, rather than judging a man you have never tried to know.

Does religion provide relief from fearing the unknown? Sure it does.. Whats so wrong with that?

Some people prefer the relief of a substance, call that, a bottle, love, sex, pain, whatever, isn't all the same? But with a good belief, a man does not abuse anything.

So get off your high horses. Forgetting about god's existence, religion teaches good morals, healthy way to live life and has contributed greatly to society. To forget about it is like forgetting your childhood.

Agreed.