B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)I didn't get a chance to read every single one of the comments in the first reading, and what I'm about to oppose is probably what everyone else demanded; that is, the gradual reduction.
With the Citizen's Income, I don't see any reason why we can't just get repeal the act straight away from the start of the next tax year. It's not really as though doing so will see wages drop overnight, there's no real need to give people "notice" over the changes because no-one is really going to be affected in a profound way. Some jobs which have yet to be created are going to be below the wage, but that's not an issue either; as I just said those jobs don't even exist yet. In fact, getting rid of the NMW now will make sure those low paying jobs are created sooner, and that's a good things because it grants opportunities to the unskilled much sooner. We could do with the provisions to entice some job creation at a time like this and thus I would like to say that I profoundly preferred this bill in it's first reading, but still support what has been outlined in this second reading. -
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)No, this is not something that I can support. A National Minimum Wage is probably the best method to ensure that all people working, particularly younger workers and those on a limited income, receive a fair wage.
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)Combine this with the benefits system introduced by the Libers though and it isn't unfair as it seems. The problem (and I had the same problem) is that you're looking at it from a RL perspective where it would be difficult, but (assuming I'm correct and this is the Libertarian Party's argument) in TSR-land, the benefit system means that this isn't a problem.(Original post by Ham and Cheese)
No, this is not something that I can support. A National Minimum Wage is probably the best method to ensure that all people working, particularly younger workers and those on a limited income, receive a fair wage. -
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)Is this real or is it something out the TSR politician wannabes?(Original post by Metrobeans)
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)Do explain how labour demand is in no way correlated to the cost of labour.(Original post by WhatTheFunk)
What is the point, you won't increase the labour need
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)If it is so much in the interests of business, then why won't they - especially given the improved information flows to people seeking work and improved information about becoming a Living Wage employer.(Original post by JPKC)
The Act looked damn fine until I saw that line.
Objections much the same as those for the previous reading. Nothing new to object to, as such.
'No'.
If it isn't in the interests of business - then we accept that it harms employment, and you're gonna have to argue that keeping people out of work who wish to work at a certain rate and would be employed at a certain rate but can't be is better than having lower wages within some jobs, when we already have a welfare system that guarantees everyone a decent standard of living regardless. -
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)In other words it would mean private companies would give less money to their employees and making the state give more instead? What about young people? Earning minimum wage at their weekend job; private companies could slash their pay and not much would be done about that.(Original post by toronto353)
Combine this with the benefits system introduced by the Libers though and it isn't unfair as it seems. The problem (and I had the same problem) is that you're looking at it from a RL perspective where it would be difficult, but (assuming I'm correct and this is the Libertarian Party's argument) in TSR-land, the benefit system means that this isn't a problem. -
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)Labour demand only increases as the need for the produce goes up. If people are still buying the same amount of it they won't increase the work force. All it means it more profit for the company and shareholder. Just because they are know paying 50 people £1 an hour to do the same amount of work doesn't mean they will employ more people(Original post by jesusandtequila)
Do explain how labour demand is in no way correlated to the cost of labour.
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)(Original post by Ham and Cheese)
In other words it would mean private companies would give less money to their employees and making the state give more instead? What about young people? Earning minimum wage at their weekend job; private companies could slash their pay and not much would be done about that.
I'm not sure about that problem H&C, but MacCuishy can answer that question I'm sure. I was correct on the first point that you raised though.(Original post by MacCuishy)
I dont get how people can say no. The Residents income allows people to live without working, if they so wish. -
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)Me too. A no from me.(Original post by xXedixXx)
Still strongly opposed to getting rid of the minimum wage. -
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To answer your first question, businesses sometimes need telling to do things even if doing so would help them in the long-term. Not having it enshrined in law is pointless if you recognise that it is the right thing for all companies to do, which it is. Besides, that's not even the main point. Workers should always, without exception, be paid enough to cover the cost of living in the area they work. Remember, the minimum wage may only be like 50p or £1 to cover that. It's just a basic protection. Make it compulsory, a win-win situation for both you guys and the left. A nice little compromise - you'd still get to reintroduce menial abject labour to the economy, which is the other consequence of this that I don't like, and we'd get our living wage.(Original post by jesusandtequila)
If it is so much in the interests of business, then why won't they - especially given the improved information flows to people seeking work and improved information about becoming a Living Wage employer.
If it isn't in the interests of business - then we accept that it harms employment, and you're gonna have to argue that keeping people out of work who wish to work at a certain rate and would be employed at a certain rate but can't be is better than having lower wages within some jobs, when we already have a welfare system that guarantees everyone a decent standard of living regardless.Last edited by JPKC; 06-06-2012 at 18:57. -
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Re: B452 - National Minimum Wage (Repeal) Bill 2012 (Second Reading)I'm against this: the bill states the wage as voluntary, and so what's to stop it being lower? With the cost of living, eating etc. increasing, what should be done is in fact increase the minimum wage, if anything.
Many people are living in poverty and can't get enough pay, yet you're wanting to scrap minimum wage?
A no from me.
