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When will we live in a world without suffering?

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    (Original post by theking1)
    I don't mean to sound like an emo but, the worlds full of pain, corruption and general lies.

    As humans we can't respect each other. Respect must be innate and not of a statue, without society to keep us in place, we're savages.

    Life can be good, but.. at the end of the day, it's doggy dog world. And I question g-d's existence, I do believe but I don't. Is G-D used to deter violence and hatred? To give peace, unity and hope?

    Let's all think of a time when we've been so horrible and selfish, rules and morality didn't get a second thought.


    Wouldn't it be better to live in a world of peace? Like...controlled unity?
    It is impossible to live in the perfect world as you describe.
    Why?
    Because without all the ****, you can't appreciate what is good. The crap is just used as a reference point.

    Think about when you where a child. If you didn't get the right coloured toy, that was terrible and the worst thing that could happen to you. Now, you would not care because you understand how low the rabbit hole goes

    So knowing about the crap means that overall you are in fact happier with everyday life.
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    (Original post by AdvanceAndVanquish)
    It was not the 'innate' part I was having trouble with, it was the part where you were talking about respecting statues.






    Linear? Huh?

    so your solution to corruption and 'power being manipulated' is to...give one person, or a small group, all the power, and over most if not all aspects of our lives? i can't see any problem with that...
    Not at all. Now you're making waffle up. I was talking about Global unity, not just for one group, but for everyone. This relates back to the whole 'discussion' point of the thread. And I was referring to 'Statute law'. It seems you keep trying to find irrelevant flaws in my discussion. Would you like some help with that? Name:  images.jpeg
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    It is impossible to live in the perfect world as you describe.
    Why?
    Because without all the ****, you can't appreciate what is good. The crap is just used as a reference point.

    Think about when you where a child. If you didn't get the right coloured toy, that was terrible and the worst thing that could happen to you. Now, you would not care because you understand how low the rabbit hole goes

    So knowing about the crap means that overall you are in fact happier with everyday life.
    Interesting point. However I refer mainly to the selfishness of human kind, seldom can people control themselves without moral restraint.
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    (Original post by amirlad)
    as long as the human condition exists there will never be an ideal world, so no
    Blunt. But I do quite agree
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    I think it's unlikely, but if we did then we would lose motivation for a lot of our usual pursuits. All kinds of suffering are actually kinds of motivation in disguise - physical suffering is to escape from sources of pain or to address injuries, loneliness is to find companionship, boredom is to keep you engaging in useful activities, and so on.

    Actually in some ways we have already accomplished this. There was an experiment a fair few years ago now where scientists were able to insert an electric device into the 'pleasure centre' of rats' brains, which when stimulated through electric impulses forced the sensation of pleasure to be experienced, just as if it had been stimulated naturally by chemicals. The scientists were able to use it to reward rats, and afterwards they gave the rat access to the button which provided stimulation. The rats, after given access to the button, pressed it continuously until death, forgoing drinking water or eating food.

    After this there was a similar experiment on a human. It worked in the same way, and eventually the human demanded access to the button and so he was given it, with similar results to the rats. The technology exists to eradicate suffering, but the results are unpalatable. People, given the power to control their moods, will pick euphoria every time. Humans, like the rats, would press their buttons continuously and lose the motivation for quenching thirst or appetite. Whether this is a better or worse existence is debatable, but to the individual with the choice, it appears that the answer may be the former.
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    (Original post by theking1)
    lolol. Calling me an 'emo' on a philosophy thread. Go to bed son x
    Oh right, ignore everything else I said and discredit me on the fact that I don't think you should neglect to remember how much happiness there is in the world. The problem is that it isn't appreciated and isn't often reported, I mean who wants to read about happiness? It's boring.

    "Go to bed son"? That's like me saying "Leave philosophy to the lads, babe"

    Don't patronise me, you arrogant little arse-wipe. You were the one who claimed "this isn't a debate, it's a discussion." If anyone's the idiot here it's you.
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    (Original post by miser)
    I think it's unlikely, but if we did then we would lose motivation for a lot of our usual pursuits. All kinds of suffering are actually kinds of motivation in disguise - physical suffering is to escape from sources of pain or to address injuries, loneliness is to find companionship, boredom is to keep you engaging in useful activities, and so on.

    Actually in some ways we have already accomplished this. There was an experiment a fair few years ago now where scientists were able to insert an electric device into the 'pleasure centre' of rats' brains, which when stimulated through electric impulses forced the sensation of pleasure to be experienced, just as if it had been stimulated naturally by chemicals. The scientists were able to use it to reward rats, and afterwards they gave the rat access to the button which provided stimulation. The rats, after given access to the button, pressed it continuously until death, forgoing drinking water or eating food.

    After this there was a similar experiment on a human. It worked in the same way, and eventually the human demanded access to the button and so he was given it, with similar results to the rats. The technology exists to eradicate suffering, but the results are unpalatable. People, given the power to control their moods, will pick euphoria every time. Humans, like the rats, would press their buttons continuously and lose the motivation for quenching thirst or appetite. Whether this is a better or worse existence is debatable, but to the individual with the choice, it appears that the answer may be the former.

    Very interesting example. Your post is definitely in a way, a simplified expression of my overall message. Cheers
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    (Original post by willbee)
    Oh right, ignore everything else I said and discredit me on the fact that I don't think you should neglect to remember how much happiness there is in the world. The problem is that it isn't appreciated and isn't often reported, I mean who wants to read about happiness? It's boring.

    "Go to bed son"? That's like me saying "Leave philosophy to the lads, babe"

    Don't patronise me, you arrogant little arse-wipe. You were the one who claimed "this isn't a debate, it's a discussion." If anyone's the idiot here it's you.
    If by lads you mean, dimwitted morons then no, I would rather not. I can taste the hypocrisy. Yes it's a 'debate' about a philosophical matter, yet you named me an 'emo' regarding a case scenario I was putting forward as a discussion example - TSR mods need to start banning 12 year olds.
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    (Original post by theking1)
    Not at all. Now you're making waffle up. I was talking about Global unity, not just for one group, but for everyone. This relates back to the whole 'discussion' point of the thread. And I was referring to 'Statute law'. It seems you keep trying to find irrelevant flaws in my discussion. Would you like some help with that? Name:  images.jpeg
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    When I aksed, you confirmed that you were advocating a global autocracy. That means rule by one man. Perhaps you incorrectly thought that it meant something else.

    Regarding this and much else, if you communicate poorly, you don't get to be snarky when you are misunderstood. 'Statue' and 'statute' are different words, and it wasn't obvious from context what you were trying to say because even replacing the former with the latter renders it as "respect must be innate and not of a statute" which is difficult enough to figure out as it is, due to the incorrect preposition.

    I personally like to make sure I understand what people are actually saying before I respond.
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    (Original post by theking1)
    Interesting point. However I refer mainly to the selfishness of human kind, seldom can people control themselves without moral restraint.
    Well you could resolve "mans inhumanity to man" with eugenics and selective breeding.
    We have already seen such changes in other animals. You can breed behaviour into dogs to not draw blood, follow people etc, so if it can be done to dogs, then it should be possible with any mammal.

    There we go. I just solved world peace :gasp:
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    (Original post by theking1)
    I don't mean to sound like an emo but, the worlds full of pain, corruption and general lies.

    As humans we can't respect each other. Respect must be innate and not of a statue, without society to keep us in place, we're savages.

    Life can be good, but.. at the end of the day, it's doggy dog world. And I question g-d's existence, I do believe but I don't. Is G-D used to deter violence and hatred? To give peace, unity and hope?

    Let's all think of a time when we've been so horrible and selfish, rules and morality didn't get a second thought.


    Wouldn't it be better to live in a world of peace? Like...controlled unity?
    Well you said it first so I hope you can see what I was referring to. It wasn't like I picked the word "emo" out of the blue. I was just a bit overwhelmed by the level of negativity in the thread and the lack of faith you have in humanity. I don't think it would be good to live in a world of peace, I think that would be on par with relinquishing our souls and all that makes us human.

    You should watch The Invasion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invasion_(film)

    SolarMovie link:

    http://www.solarmovie.eu/watch-the-invasion-2007.html

    It sort of explores the situation you describe. It's similar to The Host by Stephenie Meyer, although I advise you never read anything by that author.

    It's a pretty good movie, and will present my POV better than I can.
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    (Original post by theking1)
    If by lads you mean, dimwitted morons then no, I would rather not. I can taste the hypocrisy. Yes it's a 'debate' about a philosophical matter, yet you named me an 'emo' regarding a case scenario I was putting forward as a discussion example - TSR mods need to start banning 12 year olds.
    See above post please. You probably didn't realise this, but I was trying to engage in the discussion. I wasn't using that example to tell you that you should leave philosophy to the lads, I was saying that you shouldn't say stuff like that on an internet forum where everyone is entitled to an opinion and a post.

    But you should deffo watch the film I posted. Go on SolarMovie and use the PutLocker links. It doesn't fit your scenario exactly, but it proposes what the reality of "world peace" would mean for the essence of humanity.
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    (Original post by willbee)
    See above post please. You probably didn't realise this, but I was trying to engage in the discussion. I wasn't using that example to tell you that you should leave philosophy to the lads, I was saying that you shouldn't say stuff like that on an internet forum where everyone is entitled to an opinion and a post.

    But you should deffo watch the film I posted. Go on SolarMovie and use the PutLocker links. It doesn't fit your scenario exactly, but it proposes what the reality of "world peace" would mean for the essence of humanity.
    Looks pretty good I'll check it out.Also sorry to sound like dick. Cheers for the posts
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    (Original post by theking1)
    Looks pretty good I'll check it out.Also sorry to sound like dick. Cheers for the posts
    Tbf, I did call you an emo and then an arrogant little arse-wipe. Sorry about that. I tend to vent frustration on TSR.
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    (Original post by willbee)
    Tbf, I did call you an emo and then an arrogant little arse-wipe. Sorry about that. I tend to vent frustration on TSR.
    No worries lad
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    Never lol.
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    I think the general point of life is to suffer and become a better person for it.
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    Never.
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    I think there will be a lot of suffering over the next 500 years, at least, unless there are some massive scientific breakthroughs.


    I'm quite confident that we will eventually be able to provide a 'high' quality of life for everyone, though Earth will probably be ****ed by then.

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