Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?
Discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues concerning Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion.
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?Before the universe existed, anything in that was of course "not confined by the laws of the universe" as the universe didn't exist. Fail argument.(Original post by pokemontah!)
All we can do as humans is look at the laws of our own universe -- laws that tell us it's impossible for energy or matter to simply appear from nothing.
Whatever the creator is, it is not confined by the laws of our own universe so your parodox is meaningless.
And how can YOU decide a creator was not confined by these laws?! What evidence do you have? -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?Good on ya(Original post by RobertWhite)
When I don't care about something I usually don't let it take up any of my time...
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?(Original post by lrs_17)
Before the universe existed, anything in that was of course "not confined by the laws of the universe" as the universe didn't exist. Fail argument.
And how can YOU decide a creator was not confined by these laws?! What evidence do you have?
No, you are missing my point. A creator obviously will not be confined by the laws of its own creaton. It will be above them. And so your question about where the creator came from is a question shaped by the limitations of the laws of this universe.
It's not a question that matters. All that matters is where this universe came from. And, as our science tells us, it is impossible for something to simply appear from nothing -- And so No matter how unlikely a creator seems, it is far more plausible than the alternative.Last edited by pokemontah!; 07-06-2012 at 23:55. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?who says that matter appeared from nothing in the big bang? all big bang theory states is that all of the universe originated at a point, and then expanded outwards to form the universe as we know it. that is incredibly well supported by our observations of the universe. as for how all of the energy got there in the first place, scientists don't know. the fact we don't know how the big bang happened does not change the fact that it happened, and bringing a deity in as an explanation just makes more questions than it answers.(Original post by pokemontah!)
All we can do as humans is look at the laws of our own universe -- laws that tell us it's impossible for energy or matter to simply appear from nothing.
Whatever the creator is, it is not confined by the laws of our own universe so your parodox is meaningless.
as far as I understand the big bang does not need a cause, since it was the beginning of time and existence. cause and effect are redundant as far as the big bang goes since there was no such thing as a "before the big bang" for something to cause it. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?Don't ignore my main point please.(Original post by pokemontah!)
No, you are missing my point. A creator obviously will not be confined by the laws of its own creaton. It will be above them. And so your question about where the creator came from is a question shaped by the limitations of the laws of this universe.
It's not a question that matters. All that matters is where this universe came from. And, as our science tells us, it is impossible for something to simply appear from nothing -- And so No matter how unlikely a creator seems, it is far more plausible than the alternative.
There are many theories on how "something came from nothing" actually. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?(Original post by lucaf)
who says that matter appeared from nothing in the big bang? all big bang theory states is that all of the universe originated at a point, and then expanded outwards to form the universe as we know it. that is incredibly well supported by our observations of the universe. as for how all of the energy got there in the first place, scientists don't know. the fact we don't know how the big bang happened does not change the fact that it happened, and bringing a deity in as an explanation just makes more questions than it answers.
as far as I understand the big bang does not need a cause, since it was the beginning of time and existence. cause and effect are redundant as far as the big bang goes since there was no such thing as a "before the big bang" for something to cause it.
So reality simply popped into existence one day from absolute nothingness? -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?(Original post by lrs_17)
Don't ignore my main point please.
There are many theories on how "something came from nothing" actually.
I have explained why i do not even agree with the premise of the question twice now.
Examples Of scientists magically creating things from nothing? Or even theories that suggest it can happen?
Scientificially speaking, You do realise how impossible it is to get something from notHing?
I thought atheists based their opinions on science?Last edited by pokemontah!; 08-06-2012 at 00:08. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?*sigh*(Original post by pokemontah!)
I have explained why i do not even agree with the premise of the question twice now.
Examples scientists magically creating thngs from nothing?
You said yourself that before the universe existed, the laws of the universe didn't apply yes? -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?Did you actually read the post?(Original post by Kiss)
I don't think atheism or religion are always correct. And I find people who assume things arrogant. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?Yes, but I was merely stating my opinion. Am I not allowed to do that now?(Original post by lrs_17)
Did you actually read the post? -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?You are, I was just wondering why it was arrogant aha. I have never said "there is definitely no God" so which part was arrogant? Chill.(Original post by Kiss)
Yes, but I was merely stating my opinion. Am I not allowed to do that now? -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?No, I said the laws of this universe will not apply to a creator -- the creator being the author of the laws of this universe.(Original post by lrs_17)
*sigh*
You said yourself that before the universe existed, the laws of the universe didn't apply yes?
Trying to second guess the reality outside of our own existence is futile. Your only question shoud be how did this universe Get here. And, as science tells us, it is impossible for something to exist without a cause. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?It wasn't directed at you - hence why I said 'I'm stating my opinion'. It's more a statement about any arrogant militant atheist who wants rid of religion and ridicules those who believe in a God, and also the pushing religious indoctrinators who are also arrogant to assume they have the moral high ground in such a cruel world. Both sides to me are as bad as each other.(Original post by lrs_17)
You are, I was just wondering why it was arrogant aha. I have never said "there is definitely no God" so which part was arrogant? Chill. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?I can't be bothered, you don't see the paradox in your own statements.(Original post by pokemontah!)
No, I said the laws of this universe will not apply to a creator -- the creator being the author of the laws of this universe.
Trying to second guess the reality outside of our own existence is futile. Your only question shoud be how did this universe Get here. And, as science tells us, it is impossible for something to exist without a cause. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?Ok, but it's kinda an irrelevant thread to post it on.(Original post by Kiss)
It wasn't directed at you - hence why I said 'I'm stating my opinion'. It's more a statement about any arrogant militant atheist who wants rid of religion and ridicules those who believe in a God, and also the pushing religious indoctrinators who are also arrogant to assume they have the moral high ground in such a cruel world. Both sides to me are as bad as each other. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?Not really. It's a thread about Atheism and I made a commentary about atheism and religion.(Original post by lrs_17)
Ok, but it's kinda an irrelevant thread to post it on. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?Just because it's about atheism, doesn't make it relevant.(Original post by Kiss)
Not really. It's a thread about Atheism and I made a commentary about atheism and religion.
It is completely off the topic which is being discussed. -
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Re: Atheism is ALWAYS the correct position?I don't believe in God mostly because I was brought up that way actually, I just found reasons and arguments to support my views later on. I actually think that this is the more common basis for atheism, and the same goes for religious belief. In any case though, the views I have developed are little to do with science and more to do with epistemology.(Original post by lrs_17)
I believe entirely in Science, and therefore find the possibility of a "God" or "Gods" highly unlikely (especially that of an intervening "God"), and I can only assume almost all other atheists do not believe in "God/s" because of scientific reason.
Would you require proof, or would evidence suffice? There is a difference.(Original post by lrs_17)
But therefore, if there was proven to be a creator "God" I would quite happily (though I'd be rather embarrassed!) accept this as fact, as there would be no point in denying the obvious truth, as would almost all atheists.
Two points to raise: (i) atheism is already the default, and (ii) how does that follow from anything else in that paragraph?(Original post by lrs_17)
From a religious perspective, the whole point of religion is that it is based on faith and not fact, hence, once it becomes fact, it can therefore no longer be religion. Sure, people could still "worship" this creator, whichever form they/it be in, but it would be a bit like worshipping a wall. Therefore, atheism would become the undeniable default.
I should probably point out that religion is not defined as narrowly as you indicate. It merely denotes a system of beliefs encompassing some kind of worldview and spirituality. I don't think any faith is required for that.
