[ApresAlkan]

Labour Party: Become too moderate, often rely on ad hominem arguments in debate despite having a better case.

Green Party: Bizarre policies regarding science.

Social Democratic Party: Eurosceptics, incoherent policy.

Respect: Odd views on war and terror. Stance towards faith is very odd. George Galloway.

Socialist Party: Call for the international collapse of capitalism for motion to a universal Trotskyist zeitgeist...


Does Britain have no consistent, coherent Social Democratic movement any longer? Why has an ideology which has led to prosperity in North Europe and has previously in the UK and USA aided so much, now collapsed?

I personally would vote for the Green Party, despite their glaring flaws, but why is there no real alternative?

In the Finnish presidential elections earlier this year, it really showed up how backward and right-slanted British politics have become. The contesting parties were the 'Green League', a pro-Europe environmentalist party; True Finns, a nationalist but economically left-wing party; the Centre Party, a Nordic agrarian party which is ostensibly reactionary but would provide a more pleasant, egalitarian society; and even their Christian Democrats party is broadly secular and left-wing. That is ignoring their major Left and Socialist parties.


So, I suppose my questions are:

Why does Britain not have a strong centre-Left movement?
If you do not agree with centre-left politics, why not?


If you think that any of my criticisms of the main centre-left parties above are incorrect, let me know, and if you think that any of them are real candidates, let me know.

[rockchickm]

Agree with your completely, I think there should be stronger socialist movements considering the strong right-wing parties we have (e.g. UKIP)

[ukip72]

All 3 main parties have adopted social democracy, your spoilt for choice. Its conservatism that was missing from British politics. (Before UKIP)

[ApresAlkan]

(Original post by ukip72)
All 3 main parties have adopted social democracy, your spoilt for choice. Its conservatism that was missing from British politics. (Before UKIP)

Did you get that message I sent to you regarding UKIP, a couple of weeks ago?

Nonetheless, I firstly disagree that the three primary parties are Social Democratic. The Conservatives are in favour of tuition fees: charging for education. They are also in favour of relatively low taxation. The Liberal Democrats are Radical Centre, they are against big government and are Social Liberal as opposed to Social Democratic. Labour is a Social Democratic party, but you can see my criticism of that above.

I don't really see how anyone can label the reactionary UKIP as Conservative, let alone say that conservatism deserves equal representation to Progressivism.

[ukip72]

(Original post by ApresAlkan)
Did you get that message I sent to you regarding UKIP, a couple of weeks ago?

Nonetheless, I firstly disagree that the three primary parties are Social Democratic. The Conservatives are in favour of tuition fees: charging for education. They are also in favour of relatively low taxation. The Liberal Democrats are Radical Centre, they are against big government and are Social Liberal as opposed to Social Democratic. Labour is a Social Democratic party, but you can see my criticism of that above.

I don't really see how anyone can label the reactionary UKIP as Conservative, let alone say that conservatism deserves equal representation to Progressivism.

UKIP are conservative, just look at their policy and please, less of the conservatives don't deserve as much representation as others, your saying your viewpoint is superior to others, it is extraordinarily arrogant and very typical of people on the left.

[anarchism101]

(Original post by ukip72)
All 3 main parties had adopted social democracy

As in, they had between WW2 and the 1970s. Since then they've largely all been neoliberals, except for Labour under Foot and Smith (possibly Kinnock too, but that's more disputable), and the Lib Dems have appeared to be socdems at a few various points.

[ApresAlkan]

(Original post by ukip72)
UKIP are conservative, just look at their policy and please, less of the conservatives don't deserve as much representation as others, your saying your viewpoint is superior to others, it is extraordinarily arrogant and very typical of people on the left.

Conservative==keeping things the same
Reactionary==going backwards

A flat tax rate is returning to an older system, whether you think it's good or not.

and please, less of the conservatives don't deserve as much representation as others, your saying your viewpoint is superior to others, it is extraordinarily arrogant and very typical of people on the left.

Do Nazis and Stalinists require equal representation as well? Conservatives believe the status quo to be desirable. I, as a progressive, point to poverty, repression and war, and say, 'No. The status quo is insufficient.'

Conservatism: Sitting in a hole
Progressivism: Trying to get out of the hole, for better or for worse.
Reactionaryism: Digging deeper, making the situation worse.


And did you read that message?

[ukip72]

(Original post by ApresAlkan)
Conservative==keeping things the same
Reactionary==going backwards

A flat tax rate is returning to an older system, whether you think it's good or not.



Do Nazis and Stalinists require equal representation as well? Conservatives believe the status quo to be desirable. I, as a progressive, point to poverty, repression and war, and say, 'No. The status quo is insufficient.'

Conservatism: Sitting in a hole
Progressivism: Trying to get out of the hole, for better or for worse.
Reactionaryism: Digging deeper, making the situation worse.


And did you read that message?

Conservatives believe the status quo to be desirable as in retain the monarchy or leave the HoL how it is. That does not mean conservatives believe poverty to be desirable whereas progressives want to do something about it. What your saying about people who don't agree with you is the most unimaginably arrogant nonsense I have ever heard. Your views are not superior to other peoples.

I will reply to your message, sorry I completely forgot about it.

[ApresAlkan]

(Original post by ukip72)
Conservatives believe the status quo to be desirable as in retain the monarchy or leave the HoL how it is. That does not mean conservatives believe poverty to be desirable whereas progressives want to do something about it. What your saying about people who don't agree with you is the most unimaginably arrogant nonsense I have ever heard. Your views are not superior to other peoples.

I will reply to your message, sorry I completely forgot about it.

I disagree with you on both the Monarchy and the House of Lords. Nonetheless, by suggesting a flat tax rate, reactionaries are proposing a move away from poverty, whereas progressives, who triumph systems which move towards equality as opposed to freedoms within an arbitrarily defined system, move away from it.

There are many peoples' views which are superior to mine; not all. I do not think it arrogant to think that my views (and those of, say, Christopher Hitchens) are superior to others, notably, say, Pol Pot. This is an issue about which the options (progression, regression, maintenance) are mutually exclusive and there is an objectively correct stance. To suggest that one requires equal to the others is like saying we should teach Creationism alongside Darwinian Natural Selection. You need to approach things objectively, then perhaps you might understand what currently appears to you as 'unimaginably arrogant nonsense'.

[Martyn*]

I think that the last true Social Democrat in the UK was Bertrand Russell.

[internetguru]

You sound way too picky what is the Green party's view on science anyway?

Anyway centre left is the opposite direction you should be heading to the right.

[Sdiff]

Answer this: Why do we have no nazi or communist parties?

There's the answer to the question in the OP.

[alex5455]

(Original post by internetguru)
You sound way too picky what is the Green party's view on science anyway?

Anyway centre left is the opposite direction you should be heading to the right.

why should we be heading right? the right is conservative and for the rich big business comes before the people to the right

[internetguru]

(Original post by alex5455)
why should we be heading right? the right is conservative and for the rich big business comes before the people to the right

The right where taxes are lower for the normal people.

[alex5455]

(Original post by internetguru)
The right where taxes are lower for the normal people.

The right, no public services, mass privatisation, rampant corporate greed, low pay poor conditions, healthcare becomes a privilege for those who can afford it, basically victorian england, come on weve moved on as a nation from that

[internetguru]

(Original post by alex5455)
The right, no public services, mass privatisation, rampant corporate greed, low pay poor conditions, healthcare becomes a privilege for those who can afford it, basically victorian england, come on weve moved on as a nation from that

I would lower taxes but keep things like education and healthcare. I would take away pointless spending such as foreign aid and railways. The public sector must be drastically reduced in non essential areas as it is draining the tax coffers and ruining our country. Cracking down on tax avoidance/evasion is also important.

[ApresAlkan]

(Original post by internetguru)
I would lower taxes but keep things like education and healthcare. I would take away pointless spending such as foreign aid and railways. The public sector must be drastically reduced in non essential areas as it is draining the tax coffers and ruining our country. Cracking down on tax avoidance/evasion is also important.

Foreign aid 'pointless'? Elaborate, please do. I for one am not fond of suffering.

Railways 'pointless'? Elaborate, please do. They are more ecologically efficient than motorcars, and are much more useful than trucks for large amounts of transport. Same goes for barges.

I'm afraid I cannot take you seriously...

[anarchism101]

(Original post by internetguru)
The right where taxes are lower for the normal people.

The right generally propose flat taxes, the left progressive ones, i.e. normal people pay more under the right.

[internetguru]

(Original post by anarchism101)
The right generally propose flat taxes, the left progressive ones, i.e. normal people pay more under the right.

The left generally tax the middle class like crazy in order to fund the poor then they turn a blind eye to the rich and leave loopholes in.

[Cheese_Monster]

Some of the most uneducated opinions dressed up as facts i've seen listed so far. Come on guys. And the three main parties are not social democratic, they are neo-liberal.