[EKR93]

As most of you know, TSR is a forum with predominantly middle class students who are quite well educated. So why is it that every time someone asks "Is x university good?", "Is x course well respected?", "Are non-Russell group universities worth attending?", "Are ex-polys really that rubbish?" etc. people come out with the most ignorant dross and disguise it as worthwhile knowledge to people who just want an answer to their - relatively simple - question, so they can narrow down their choices?

I have never understood why people are so quick to press the neg button if someone goes against the grain and goes "Actually, you're all full of crap, plenty of people from an ex-poly (for example) have gone on to do excellent things." What is the obsession with assuming everyone asking a question wants to go into a top legal/business firm or Medicine?

It occurs with CV helpers to some extent as well, so it's not just ordinary users. I'd just like to know why this is, it would be interesting to see why you can pass judgement never having gotten into a top career yet (by this I'm talking about students who have never had a full time job and haven't finished college/university who are not qualified to make comments, not the users of TSR who genuinely have experience), not knowing about every single university/course and just glancing at a dubious league table and suddenly feeling like you can give the best possible unbiased advice.

In a nutshell, don't pass judgement on things you're completely ignorant of because it makes you look stupid. You're students, not top employers. Leave it for them to decide who gets a job or not.

[besomebody]

If people are unable to ignore stupid judgements they shouldn't ask leading questions ("Is x university good?", "Is x course well respected?", "Are non-Russell group universities worth attending?", "Are ex-polys really that rubbish?" ) of predominantly middle class students who are quite well educated on the internet.

I have never understood why people feel the need to make threads like this.

[Billton]

What does it matter anyway? It's only the internet! I attend MMU and have only had 1 person try and make me feel bad

[Sir Fox]

What people write on TSR is not representative of British student society anyway - I'd say 50% + of all threads here are about the Top 10/20 British universities, yet the UK has more than 100 universities. As far as I know TSR has > 900,000 members, taking into consideration that many are still at school, some are alumni and others are just here out of fun there are still several hundreds of thousands of university students and I bet <2% are attending Oxbridge, yet threads about Oxbridge amount to at least 10% of all threads ...

Once someone asked whether university X or the University of Dundee would be better for Psychology and a highly ranked member replied "Neither, repeat your A-levels". According to the Guardian by then Dundee was rankend 17th for Psychology, so I was just like I consider that a major offence towards 80% of all university students. Just because he attends UCL he seems to think he's somehow better. People on here tend to think anything except for Russell Group is not acceptable.

But it seems to be a general problem of the UK - the reputation of your university is the way to inflate you ego. In Germany people care more about the course, the department, whether they like the city and think about where their friends go instead of spending hours checking league tables and employers know that personal commitment and hard work > reputation.

[LETSJaM]

(Original post by besomebody)
If people are unable to ignore stupid judgements they shouldn't ask leading questions ("Is x university good?", "Is x course well respected?", "Are non-Russell group universities worth attending?", "Are ex-polys really that rubbish?" ) of predominantly middle class students who are quite well educated on the internet.

I have never understood why people feel the need to make threads like this.

This.

<3 x

[SpicyStrawberry]

(Original post by besomebody)
If people are unable to ignore stupid judgements they shouldn't ask leading questions ("Is x university good?", "Is x course well respected?", "Are non-Russell group universities worth attending?", "Are ex-polys really that rubbish?" ) of predominantly middle class students who are quite well educated on the internet.

I have never understood why people feel the need to make threads like this.

While I agree with some of what you have said, the OP raises a good point. Many people on here do like to think they can pass judgement on things they don't genuinely know much about.

As for asking leading questions, most people are college/school students who just want to know if a uni is worth attending, they don't want an in-depth analysis. A summary of facts about the facilities and opinions of the teaching quality would normally suffice.

It's also quite presumptive to assume the people asking these questions are aware that people on here are mainly middle class and well educated, I for one thought when I signed up that it would be a wide range of students from different backgrounds but it's not always the case.

[EKR93]

(Original post by besomebody)
I have never understood why people feel the need to make threads like this.

It has become apparent to me that lots of people who come on here to ask innocent questions about how good a university/course is get slated if it's an ex-poly or a course considered "weak" by the people of TSR, and while some people don't take it to heart, others will and go on to think they aren't worthwhile.

I think it's quite important to raise this issue, too many people get away with posting bile who are supposedly quite knowledgeable (if reputation is anything to go by). If you feel uncomfortable with people making threads going against the majority, there's no need for you to stay.

[tory88]

I only give my opinion on universities if I know people that go there. Seeing as I know a lot of people at a lot of different universities, this gives me a basic understanding of the workload at the universities, at least for the subjects I'm aware of. I would agree that league tables are way to heavily relied up on TSR though.

[EKR93]

(Original post by Billton)
What does it matter anyway? It's only the internet! I attend MMU and have only had 1 person try and make me feel bad

Yeah it's only the internet, but I bet some people do find themselves feeling down about what people on here have said, considering they are students too and if they're being snobby, what will employers think? It's a silly mentality that needs to stop.

[Billton]

(Original post by EKR93)
It's a silly mentality that needs to stop.

Hmm, it is a bit silly but they are people's opinions and sadly they are entitled to them- be it your idea of rude or snobby.
Let the haters hate (I really am turning into my sister )

[SoNottingH]

I have noticed there seem to be a lot of threads about Oxbridge, but I suppose as they are generally thought to be the best, people want to get into them, or are just curious or jealous or admiring - it's a bit like the way we enjoy watching programmes about the rich and famous rather than poor people. Gossip Girl and 90210 trump films about life on council estates.

[besomebody]

(Original post by EKR93)
It has become apparent to me that lots of people who come on here to ask innocent questions about how good a university/course is get slated if it's an ex-poly or a course considered "weak" by the people of TSR, and while some people don't take it to heart, others will and go on to think they aren't worthwhile.

I think it's quite important to raise this issue, too many people get away with posting bile who are supposedly quite knowledgeable (if reputation is anything to go by). If you feel uncomfortable with people making threads going against the majority, there's no need for you to stay.

Ah, that's nice, thanks. I don't think you're going against the majority - I'd say most people agree with most of your original post. I think making a thread on it is pointless though, and a tad condescending. Some unis may not be worthwhile - your thread has the potential to mislead people as much as any TSR troll.

[threeportdrift]

(Original post by EKR93)
It occurs with CV helpers to some extent as well, so it's not just ordinary users.

You've never used the CV Help thread unless you have a dupe account, so how would you know what advice they give? It's a private forum, only the moderators, the helpers and the person that starts the thread can see their thread.

The CV Helpers take great care not to presume that everyone is aiming for investment banking etc, but the general situation is the same for everyone, no matter what job. Applying for a job is like taking part in a competition, and you have to be competitive to be successful. It makes no difference if you are trying to get a Saturday job in a supermarket or a place on the trading floor of Goldman Sachs.

Conversely to your opinion, it is not the role of the CV Helper to look at someone's initial CV and write them off. We can't say 'Huh, a BTEC in Childcare, I'm not going to give this person the full facts and the best advice'. We can't judge the true ability or ambition of a person on the strength of a few exchanges on TSR. Therefore we always give the most comprehensive, full package of advice, even if that is overkill for the OPs situation. They can decide that for themselves, we can't decide it for them.

We deal with the full spectrum of abilities and ambitions, and we give them all the very best, most detailed and honest advice we can.

As for experience, I've had direct experience of being a student at 4 universities and a member of staff at 2 more, across all levels of the league tables. I have also had over 20 years of a professional career (obviously some of that in Higher Education) and I've employed people and been through various recruitment processes. I don't use league tables in order to form my opinions.

So are you just demonstrating an ignorant opinion on TSR or what?

[besomebody]

(Original post by SpicyStrawberry)
While I agree with some of what you have said, the OP raises a good point. Many people on here do like to think they can pass judgement on things they don't genuinely know much about.

As for asking leading questions, most people are college/school students who just want to know if a uni is worth attending, they don't want an in-depth analysis. A summary of facts about the facilities and opinions of the teaching quality would normally suffice.

It's also quite presumptive to assume the people asking these questions are aware that people on here are mainly middle class and well educated, I for one thought when I signed up that it would be a wide range of students from different backgrounds but it's not always the case.

1) Yes, but don't we all expect that?

2 & 3) I was powerphrasing the OP.

[EKR93]

(Original post by threeportdrift)
You've never used the CV Help thread unless you have a dupe account, so how would you know what advice they give? It's a private forum, only the moderators, the helpers and the person that starts the thread can see their thread.

The CV Helpers take great care not to presume that everyone is aiming for investment banking etc, but the general situation is the same for everyone, no matter what job. Applying for a job is like taking part in a competition, and you have to be competitive to be successful. It makes no difference if you are trying to get a Saturday job in a supermarket or a place on the trading floor of Goldman Sachs.

Conversely to your opinion, it is not the role of the CV Helper to look at someone's initial CV and write them off. We can't say 'Huh, a BTEC in Childcare, I'm not going to give this person the full facts and the best advice'. We can't judge the true ability or ambition of a person on the strength of a few exchanges on TSR. Therefore we always give the most comprehensive, full package of advice, even if that is overkill for the OPs situation. They can decide that for themselves, we can't decide it for them.

We deal with the full spectrum of abilities and ambitions, and we give them all the very best, most detailed and honest advice we can.

As for experience, I've had direct experience of being a student at 4 universities and a member of staff at 2 more, across all levels of the league tables. I have also had over 20 years of a professional career (obviously some of that in Higher Education) and I've employed people and been through various recruitment processes. I don't use league tables in order to form my opinions.

So are you just demonstrating an ignorant opinion on TSR or what?

I wasn't talking about the advice CV helpers give to CVs, I'm talking about advice they give on normal forum posts to people asking general questions (if you read my post I never said anything about actual CV advice). I appreciate what you try to do, and I can see it's quite a difficult task to change someone's weak CV into a much better one, but sometimes the answers given can be condescending, no matter how experienced you are.

[EKR93]

(Original post by besomebody)
Ah, that's nice, thanks. I don't think you're going against the majority - I'd say most people agree with your original post. I think making a thread on it is pointless though, and a tad condescending. Some unis may not be worthwhile - your thread has the potential to mislead people as much as any TSR troll.

I'm hardly a troll if most people apparently agree with me and I'm not going out of my way to offend people for the fun of it, I'm raising a serious point in defence of people who may feel upset with some of the comments people have towards their choices. It's okay if I sound condescending, makes a change from the snobs of TSR doing it anyhow.

[besomebody]

(Original post by EKR93)
I'm hardly a troll if most people apparently agree with me and I'm not going out of my way to offend people for the fun of it, I'm raising a serious point in defence of people who may feel upset with some of the comments people have towards their choices. It's okay if I sound condescending, makes a change from the snobs of TSR doing it anyhow.

I never called you a troll. I'm not that mean

[SpicyStrawberry]

(Original post by besomebody)
1) Yes, but don't we all expect that?

Clearly not if people are constantly posting questions asking if university X is better than university Y, so on and so forth. Threads like that crop up every day and lead to the same old arguments.

What's powerphrasing btw? Did you mean paraphrasing?

[cl_steele]

(Original post by EKR93)
As most of you know, TSR is a forum with predominantly middle class students who are quite well educated. So why is it that every time someone asks "Is x university good?", "Is x course well respected?", "Are non-Russell group universities worth attending?", "Are ex-polys really that rubbish?" etc. people come out with the most ignorant dross and disguise it as worthwhile knowledge to people who just want an answer to their - relatively simple - question, so they can narrow down their choices?

I have never understood why people are so quick to press the neg button if someone goes against the grain and goes "Actually, you're all full of crap, plenty of people from an ex-poly (for example) have gone on to do excellent things." What is the obsession with assuming everyone asking a question wants to go into a top legal/business firm or Medicine?

It occurs with CV helpers to some extent as well, so it's not just ordinary users. I'd just like to know why this is, it would be interesting to see why you can pass judgement never having gotten into a top career yet, not knowing about every single university/course and just glancing at a dubious league table and suddenly feeling like you can give the best possible unbiased advice.

In a nutshell, don't pass judgement on things you're completely ignorant of because it makes you look stupid. You're students, not top employers. Leave it for them to decide who gets a job or not.

may i ask what gives you the right to pass any form of judgement either then...?

[Drewski]

(Original post by EKR93)
It occurs with CV helpers to some extent as well, so it's not just ordinary users. I'd just like to know why this is, it would be interesting to see why you can pass judgement never having gotten into a top career yet.
In a nutshell, don't pass judgement on things you're completely ignorant of because it makes you look stupid. You're students, not top employers. Leave it for them to decide who gets a job or not.

How do you know this? Just because they're on a student forum doesn't mean they're still students. I happen to know a number of them are indeed very succesful individuals with extremely interesting, rewarding and highly sought after careers. What gives you the right to pass judgement on them?

(Original post by Sir Fox)
a highly ranked member replied

TSR has no such thing. It's users are not ranked or assessed.