[Multitalented me]

Or parents just doing what's best for their children? I personally believe teaching children about different religions is ok as long as they are not forced into choosing one & can make up their own decision when they're old enough to understand religion properly. It's not the same as making them have a wash, eat food, wear clothes, brush their teeth etc as proof is needed that it's acutally beneficial. I feel so sorry for all the kids with families that usually only instill in them their own religion & force them to undertake religious practices when they can't even fully comprehend religion & thus it can lead to future psychological harm. The same applies to cases where some atheist parents will also do this. These unfortunate children need to be taken away from the influences of their family & be around those who will treat them properly (i.e. no pressurising, no guilt tripping, letting them learn about lots of different faiths & when they're old enough to decide for themselves whether to follow any religion, will not love them any less)

[Kiss]

(Original post by Multitalented me)
Or is it parents just doing what's best for their children? I personally believe teaching children about different religions is ok as long as they are not forced into choosing one & can make up their own decision when they're old enough to understand religion properly. I feel so sorry for all the kids with families that try to influence the their mentality & make them do religious practices when they can't even fully comprehend religion. These unfortunate children need to be taken away from the influences of their family & be around those who will treat them properly

That sounds pretty disturbing and borderline totalitarian.

[Gofre]

It depends. I have no problem whatsoever with parents bringing their children up around their faith as long as it isn't forced on them and doesn't interfere with them having a normal childhood. However if they enforce their customs on their children heavily or raise their children to embrace homophobia, racism or any other kind of bigotry as part of their religion, then I would see that as a serious issue. In short as long as it doesn't interfere with the physical, mental or social welfare of the child in a negative way, I don't really see an issue.

[The Polymath]

(Original post by Gofre)
It depends. I have no problem whatsoever with parents bringing their children up around their faith as long as it isn't forced on them and doesn't interfere with them having a normal childhood. However if they enforce their customs on their children heavily or raise their children to embrace homophobia, racism or any other kind of bigotry as part of their religion, then I would see that as a serious issue. In short as long as it doesn't interfere with the physical, mental or social welfare of the child, I don't really see an issue.

Well said, nice and civil The problem is that it almost invariably does have an impact on the child, although sometimes this is good. Being raised in a moderate religious household can, I believe, develop a critical, logical mind due to the child questioning the faith. It can of course, have the opposite effect, should the child become used to accepting what they are told as the truth. Hmms.

[Giant]

A fundamental aspect to democracy is freedom of religion - and that means both to practise and preach.

A child can easily and freely choose to disagree when he is older, but I think it would be out of order to not allow parents to bring up their children under X religion.

[navarre]

Depends how extreme they are. If they're teaching them to hate everyone who isn't part of their religion or teaching them to hate homosexuals, then yes, that qualifies as child abuse. If it's moderate, then that's fine, I see nothing wrong with it.

[Multitalented me]

(Original post by Kiss)
That sounds pretty disturbing and borderline totalitarian.

But the right course of action to take if parents are forcing their children into religious practices/believing their religion is the right one when their mind isn't even fully mature

[chickenonsteroids]

I think it's unfair when they're guilt tripped into still believing it. Just let them think for themselves and don't hate them if they change their mind.

[The_Lonely_Goatherd]

(Original post by Gofre)
It depends. I have no problem whatsoever with parents bringing their children up around their faith as long as it isn't forced on them and doesn't interfere with them having a normal childhood. However if they enforce their customs on their children heavily or raise their children to embrace homophobia, racism or any other kind of bigotry as part of their religion, then I would see that as a serious issue. In short as long as it doesn't interfere with the physical, mental or social welfare of the child in a negative way, I don't really see an issue.

On a side note, I personally feel people on this forum use the word "indoctrination" when what they mean is "upbringing". So it depends what is meant by the thread title. Care to clarify, OP?

[MUSLAMIC RAY GUN]

if your parents are muzzlems, you're either muzzlem or "disowned".

[Multitalented me]

(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)


On a side note, I personally feel people on this forum use the word "indoctrination" when what they mean is "upbringing". So it depends what is meant by the thread title. Care to clarify, OP?

Indoctrination, for example family pressuring/guilt tripping little kids into following a particular religion, most religious parents only teach their child their own religion when if anything they should let them look at all religions & decide for themsleves when they're mature enough & not love them any less afterwards

[TheRustaman]

Religious indoctrination is not only child abuse, it is a disease, and it is the only way in which religion still exists.
Parents should not be allowed to force their beliefs upon another being, it goes against their human rights.
Indoctrination makes it extremely difficult for the person to leave faith later as it is so instilled in them that change is almost impossible.

Change religion with racial hatred and you'll see how infectious it really is!

[Bellissima]

not unless they are fundamentalists

[Kiss]

(Original post by TheRustaman)
Religious indoctrination is not only child abuse, it is a disease, and it is the only way in which religion still exists.
Parents should not be allowed to force their beliefs upon another being, it goes against their human rights.
Indoctrination makes it extremely difficult for the person to leave faith later as it is so instilled in them that change is almost impossible.

Change religion with racial hatred and you'll see how infectious it really is!

Wow, what a militant atheist. I'm guessing if it were up to you you'd love to kill every single religious person.

[Xotol]

(Original post by Giant)
A fundamental aspect to democracy is freedom of religion - and that means both to practise and preach.

A child can easily and freely choose to disagree when he is older, but I think it would be out of order to not allow parents to bring up their children under X religion.

A child does not 'easily' choose to disagree when they are older most of the time. After doing some research, it took me a year to start doubting my beliefs, and another two to fully convert to atheism. I can tell you: it was not an easy nor necessarily free choice. It was difficult and a terrible ~3 years of my life.

Indoctrination is a real issue. What usually happens is children are raised under the notion that they're religion is absolutely right, and they absorb that information like a sponge. It becomes difficult to break out of it and accept the possibility that what they were told throughout their early childhood is wrong. Sometimes people go through their whole lives without ever cracking open another holy book besides their own. It happens in places like the Middle East and some parts of America.

Your suggestion that it would be out of order to disallow parents to raise their children under religion is a misunderstanding of 'freedom' of religion on your part. Sure, they can practise religion, but a child is a whole different life incapable of making rational decisions by itself. And 'to preach' does not insinuate 'forcing', which is what usually happens in this instance. Are you telling me that children consent to praying, wearing turbans or getting baptised at their age? No, they are forced to, even if the parent intends no harm.

I personally agree with what Gofre said: it's fine to introduce children to faiths, but not to force them. If it is me in that position, I would introduce a variety of faiths to my children so that they can decide later on in their lives.

[Giant]

(Original post by Xotol)
A child does not 'easily' choose to disagree when they are older most of the time. After doing some research, it took me a year to start doubting my beliefs, and another two to fully convert to atheism. I can tell you: it was not an easy nor necessarily free choice. It was difficult and a terrible ~3 years of my life.

Indoctrination is a real issue. What usually happens is children are raised under the notion that they're religion is absolutely right, and they absorb that information like a sponge. It becomes difficult to break out of it and accept the possibility that what they were told throughout their early childhood is wrong.

Your suggestion that it would be out of order to disallow parents to raise their children under religion is a misunderstanding of 'freedom' of religion on your part. Sure, they can practise religion, but a child is a whole different life incapable of making rational decisions by itself. And 'to preach' does not insinuate 'forcing', which is what usually happens in this instance. Are you telling me that children consent to praying, wearing turbans or getting baptised at their age? No, they are forced to, even if the parent intends no harm.

I personally agree with what Gofre said: it's fine to introduce children to faiths, but not to force them. If it is me in that position, I would introduce a variety of faiths to my children so that they can decide later on in their lives.

You raise a fair and valid point.

I think I may have worded my answer in such a way that I implied that children being indoctrinated into religion is a great thing and blurred the distinction between "preach" and "force" (the latter I am against). I am not for it, I am against it - but yet I do think it is within parents rights to preach faiths (or as you say introduce to faiths) so, and I don't think that should change.

However, what I should have made clearer was that I completely disagree with those parents who do things, as you correctly point out, like circumcision, baptising their children, raising them to be Xeno/Homophobic etc.

[Multitalented me]

(Original post by Giant)
You raise a fair and valid point.

I think I may have worded my answer in such a way that I implied that children being indoctrinated into religion is a great thing and blurred the distinction between "preach" and "force" (the latter I am against). I am not for it, I am against it - but yet I do think it is within parents rights to preach faiths (or as you say introduce to faiths) so, and I don't think that should change.

However, what I should have made clearer was that I completely disagree with those parents who do things, as you correctly point out, like circumcision, baptising their children, raising them to be Xeno/Homophobic etc.

The likes of circumsision & baptising should be illegal all around, religion really shouldn't be interfering with laws/human rights.

[Kiss]

(Original post by Multitalented me)
The likes of circumsision & baptising really be illegal all around, religion really shouldn't be interfering with laws/human rights.

Even in countries which don't accept human rights?

What we if we found a tribe of natives in the Amazon and they had a practise which we disagreed with. Is it right to remove them of their beliefs and tell them how they should live life? You can't create an 'ought' from a 'is', and similarly I see human rights, whilst having a good overall intention, fails ultimately as it contradicts itself in the respect of religions and individual practises.

[SaharaDesert]

There's only so much that the state can do in interfering with the individual lives of citizens. You're telling me that parents should not even have the right to raise their own children as Christians/Muslims/Hindus/Buddhists because it is "abuse". That idea sounds even worse than the user on TSR who said it should be banned for parents to give their children religious names in case they might face the situation where they encounter difficulties in getting a name change if they decide to leave the religion (or some argument along those lines).

And I think its impractical to give your children a thorough, detailed analysis of each and every religion. Its difficult enough for some young adults on TSR to understand basic theological concepts in Islam, and you want parents to teach every one of their kids about every single possible religion so that they have a "free choice". At the end of the day, we are forced into things we have no control over when we're young; our parents make decisions for us, that's just life. When the child grows up, they will have the mental maturity to either reject what they grew up believing in or embrace it.

And btw, you can apply this argument to militant Atheists, who raise their children telling them there is no God, that religion is fairytale etcetera, and consequently, that is what their child is "indoctrinated" to believe in.

[Perseveranze]

Ever heard of Atheist indoctrine? Try bringing religion into that kind of household, it's not easy.

I think it's not right to generalize religions without realising that every child is going to be the product of what they're taught in their early years. It's only when they hit around 18-20'sh do they start to think independently and contemplate the influences of what they're taught. It's around this time that they make the conscious decision to accept it or not.