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Woman raped at 3am by a sick nasty rapist after getting thrown off the bus...

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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    Do you always give money to people when they need it? For example, when beggars on the street ask for change, do you always give it to them? I would find that difficult to believe.

    Her being raped is solely the fault of the rapist.
    The diffusion of responsibility in the case of a homeless person is different; you encounter them for a transient period and justify not giving them something by assuming the next person will. These people were sitting there observing this woman for eight minutes, which is more than enough time to intervene after realising nobody else will. Alongside the temperature, small amount of money in question and vulnerability of the woman (Nottingham is eerily empty at nights), I would have given her the money.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    The diffusion of responsibility in the case of a homeless person is different; you encounter them for a transient period and justify not giving them something by assuming the next person will. These people were sitting there observing this woman for eight minutes, which is more than enough time to intervene after realising nobody else will. Alongside the temperature, small amount of money in question and vulnerability of the woman (Nottingham is eerily empty at nights), I would have given her the money.
    There's probably a lot of women who walk around late at night who don't get raped though. It's easy in hindsight to say, "why didn't they give her the money?", but then if you're using that reasoning, one could just as easily say "why didn't she bring sufficient money?" implying she is partially to blame, which I would completely disagree with.

    If one blames the passengers for not lending her money, then I would suggest one would have to equally blame the woman for not having the money in the first place. It's essentially the same argument.

    Both are, of course, complete nonsense; it is the rapist who is solely to blame, not the passengers/woman.
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    I think people tend to generalise and assume the worst alot of the time due to the scamming that happens nowadays we have lost our trust in people or even bothering to just help people out for a good deed. Obviously noone wanted to give her 20p because she was begging for 8 minutes for it on the bus from people, and thats how sad society has become. As a young woman travelling alone in London i have had several incidences that were not in my control like getting on the wrong bus and not realising till the last stop in the middle of some random village in the middle of the night, or missing my bus alone in late evenings, its just tragic that this girl's story ended so badly, feel for her, and the driver could have easily let her go on since she didn't jump on the bus asking to get on with just 20p in her pocket but was 20p SHORT!
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    Can't believe some are saying the rape was her fault for being short on the bus fare. As a staunch anti-feminist, getting very angry when women abdicate responsibility for their own safety, I'm disgusted to hear this and you should hang your head in shame.

    The 20p behoves a sad facet of our post-Thatcher individualistic culture. As whyumadtho says above, she was stood there for eight minutes arguing and not one passenger stepped forward. It is the dark flipside of all the good things the 1980s did for this country.

    The bus driver is a little different because as soon as you start letting people take liberties everyone joins in, give an inch and they take a mile, it's the entitlement culture.

    (That's the last reactionary Mail buzzword I'll use tonight, don't you worry)
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    (Original post by ras90)
    She was asking for trouble by not having the money.

    It is just common sence for a girl late at night to ensure she has the correct money to make any journey before leaving home. In the same way that a girl leaving home looking like a slag is asking for trouble aswell.

    I did also say it was mainly his fault.
    lol how do you exist even
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    (Original post by Arekkusu)
    Can't believe some are saying the rape was her fault for being short on the bus fare. As a staunch anti-feminist, getting very angry when women abdicate responsibility for their own safety, I'm disgusted to hear this and you should hang your head in shame.

    The 20p behoves a sad facet of our post-Thatcher individualistic culture. As whyumadtho says above, she was stood there for eight minutes arguing and not one passenger stepped forward. It is the dark flipside of all the good things the 1980s did for this country.
    So do you believe the passengers were partially responsible for not lending her the money? If so, I don't see how you can then not partially blame the woman. It's essentially the same point.

    I don't blame either the passengers OR the woman, but I don't understand how you can moan about the passengers refusing to lend her money, and then also claim that her not having the money is completely irrelevant.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    So do you believe the passengers were partially responsible for not lending her the money? If so, I don't see how you can then not partially blame the woman. It's essentially the same point.

    I don't blame either the passengers OR the woman, but I don't understand how you can moan about the passengers refusing to lend her money, and then also claim that her not having the money is completely irrelevant.
    No, of course they aren't responsible for the rape. But you have just in a way proven my point, as if to say the only reason they'd give up 20p would be as "insurance against responsibility" - how individualistic is that?

    I'd like to think that a decent person would still stump up the price of a Freddo to help out a vulnerable, clearly-not-a-drugged-up-waster stranger, without doing a cost/benefit analysis.

    I am basically being an old person whining about how during rationing and such everyone was forever round each other's houses sharing their weekly slice of bread and now it all goes in the bin.
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    (Original post by Arekkusu)
    No, of course they aren't responsible for the rape. But you have just in a way proven my point, as if to say the only reason they'd give up 20p would be as "insurance against responsibility" - how individualistic is that?

    I'd like to think that a decent person would still stump up the price of a Freddo to help out a vulnerable, clearly-not-a-drugged-up-waster stranger, without doing a cost/benefit analysis.

    I am basically being an old person whining about how during rationing and such everyone was forever round each other's houses sharing their weekly slice of bread and now it all goes in the bin.
    Yes, it is individualistic, no doubt about that.

    But essentially, if some people are implying that by refusing to lend her 20p thus making her walk around alone, were contributing partially to the rape, then that is equivalent to saying that women who choose to walk around alone at night are contributing to their being raped.

    Which I why I think it's very silly to try to pass the responsibility onto the passengers.
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    I don't understand how the Nottingham bus-service now works, then. Is there some kind of flat-fare circumstance?

    This girl was refused a ticket on the bus and then called her mum to pick her up as she began walking in the direction of her home, a 12 mile walk in sub-zero temperatures, is how it came to be that the mother was among the first at the scene. My own inclination would have been to say to the driver, "take me as far as I can go for £4:80 " and called mum from the warmth of the bus to pick me up for the last mile or so.
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    (Original post by fbear)
    That is horrible. I don't think it's in any way right to blame the woman. She may have underestimated her expenditure before reaching the bus or may not have known the exact fare. Nor do I blame the passengers and the bus driver. As heartless as it sounds, they did not commit a crime or foresee one being committed as a result of their inaction.

    However, I personally would not ignore a woman and have her walk home at 3 AM when there was something I could do to help. It would be the decent thing to do. If I was one of the passengers whole failed to help, I'd feel guilty for quite sometime.
    I agree with everything your saying. The bold bit though, you say this in hindsight.. im sure youre obviously a lovely person, but imagine living in a city.. theres a lot of girls at the end of the night trying to find their own way home alone.. you cant help every single one or youd be very poor! most people just stick to their own business. As a girl, id like to think id have leant that 20p too.. but the more likely scenario if i was there is of me being oblivious to whats going on around me, id probably also be tipsy and likely wearing "going out gear" so heels/dress whatever and probably moaning in my own head about wishing the bus would move so i could be in my bed quicker. As a female, if im by myself alone late at night in an environment such as this, i tend to keep myself to myself - i think its a defense mechanism most girls have inbuilt? whereas if i was with a friend i'd not be as cautious. This reminds me (dont know why) of when you're in potentially intimidating situations such as late at night walking alone through the park right next to home etc and theres dodgy looking characters, i instantly whap my phone out and pretend to text or hold it against my ear :s and avoid eye contact with the scary looking men/ creepy lone guy.
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    Wait... This is 2012, right?

    So why the hell are we still blaming the rape survivor?

    I've had times, being sober, where I've forgotten my purse, or thought I had an extra few pounds than what I did. Hell, there were even times I walked home from work, 11pm at night for various reasons. Still wouldn't mean I deserved to be raped.

    Is it really appropriate to analyse why this woman was raped? Because I'd be sick to the stomach were I the survivor reading this. No-one deserves to be raped. No-one deserves to have the details of their rape picked apart. Is it any wonder so few rapes get reported? It's also irrelevant how "ugly" her rapist was. It reinforces the myth that only "ugly" men rape. It's not the case.

    Should the survivor be reading this; it's a small chance - she is a student; I just want to say I'm sorry for what happened to you, and I believe you. I hope you're getting the support you need.
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    (Original post by tpxvs)
    I agree with everything your saying. The bold bit though, you say this in hindsight.. im sure youre obviously a lovely person, but imagine living in a city.. theres a lot of girls at the end of the night trying to find their own way home alone.. you cant help every single one or youd be very poor! most people just stick to their own business. As a girl, id like to think id have leant that 20p too.. but the more likely scenario if i was there is of me being oblivious to whats going on around me, id probably also be tipsy and likely wearing "going out gear" so heels/dress whatever and probably moaning in my own head about wishing the bus would move so i could be in my bed quicker. As a female, if im by myself alone late at night in an environment such as this, i tend to keep myself to myself - i think its a defense mechanism most girls have inbuilt? whereas if i was with a friend i'd not be as cautious. This reminds me (dont know why) of when you're in potentially intimidating situations such as late at night walking alone through the park right next to home etc and theres dodgy looking characters, i instantly whap my phone out and pretend to text or hold it against my ear :s and avoid eye contact with the scary looking men/ creepy lone guy.
    I actually deleted my post because I decided to think about the very thing you happened to post, before re-posting.

    Maybe it's just because I'm a bit naive or that I come from a city with absurdly high rates of crimes against women, but in this specific scenario where she asked for the remaining 20p I would have helped. However, I agree with you about other nonspecific situations. Even if I'd want to in reality I probably wouldn't go out of my way to help like you stated.
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    (Original post by Chief Wiggum)
    Yes, it is individualistic, no doubt about that.

    But essentially, if some people are implying that by refusing to lend her 20p thus making her walk around alone, were contributing partially to the rape, then that is equivalent to saying that women who choose to walk around alone at night are contributing to their being raped.

    Which I why I think it's very silly to try to pass the responsibility onto the passengers.
    Just to get things straight, I am not trying to pass responsibility onto the passengers. In fact the thrust of my argument is that they can give or not give 20p without responsibility coming into it, it's about being an empathetic human being.
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    (Original post by Arekkusu)
    Just to get things straight, I am not trying to pass responsibility onto the passengers. In fact the thrust of my argument is that they can give or not give 20p without responsibility coming into it, it's about being an empathetic human being.
    Yeah I got that from your initial reply, I was just clarifying what I'd meant really.
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    Bus drivers dont usually do that. That one is a ****ing disgrace chucking a 19 year old woman off at 3am. Absolute ****ing disgrace.
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    (Original post by dizzy09)
    No-one deserves to have the details of their rape picked apart. Is it any wonder so few rapes get reported?
    With the best will in the world you need to do that to prove guilt. I understand how rape is one of the most dehumanising and frightening experiences - and some women seem to think it's "shameful" to admit to being raped for some reason.

    But despite such feelings if something catastrophic happens you have to steel yourself and get it sorted out, just like you would if a condom split and you get down to the clinic next morning, no messing.
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    (Original post by fbear)
    I actually deleted my post because I decided to think about the very thing you happened to post, before re-posting.

    Maybe it's just because I'm a bit naive or that I come from a city with absurdly high rates of crimes against women, but in this specific scenario where she asked for the remaining 20p I would have helped. However, I agree with you about other nonspecific situations. Even if I'd want to in reality I probably wouldn't go out of my way to help like you stated.
    haha, now im curious what that post was!

    what city is that? (please dont say manchester!) Im from a little town in the countryside and i cant imagine this sort of thing happening in my hometown at all! There would probably be plenty of passengers jumping to help out not that it would be needed as the bit pervy but loveable old man for the bus driver would probably let the girl on for free. I need to get out of this rosie dosie mindset and realise what life in a city will be like in just 3 months! D:
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    (Original post by Arekkusu)
    just like you would if a condom split and you get down to the clinic next morning, no messing.
    Bit paranoid.
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    (Original post by tpxvs)
    haha, now im curious what that post was!

    what city is that? (please dont say manchester!) Im from a little town in the countryside and i cant imagine this sort of thing happening in my hometown at all! There would probably be plenty of passengers jumping to help out not that it would be needed as the bit pervy but loveable old man for the bus driver would probably let the girl on for free. I need to get out of this rosie dosie mindset and realise what life in a city will be like in just 3 months! D:
    Nah, it's not in the UK. Though little towns are good in that way. Small and secure.
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    (Original post by green.tea)
    Bit paranoid.
    Not for the clap, for the pill. I don't think that's paranoid...
Updated: December 19, 2012
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