[Aethra]

It's difficult to imagine anything more perverted and abhorrent than mutilating one's own child's genitalia, particularly if the only reason you're doing it is because of some ancient religious cult. It should be banned and those who do it locked up for a very long time.

[Tahooper]

It should be legal for medical reasons (e.g. emergencies) but it should only be non-medically legal if the person receiving the circumcision is at least 18 years old.

[blueray]

I'm sure there are much more pressing issues that whether baptism or circumcision should be legal.

If it doesn't affect you, why bother? Are they loosing out on anything major from having a bit water poured over them or their skin cut? I doubt it.

[Lilio Candidior]

When reading what people has to say about baptism in this thread it becomes obvious that those who call themselves godless are in fact worshipping false and terrible gods, the gods who demand a cost for everything, and who never gives, but always takes. Those are the false gods of self-realization, materialism, economy, a cruel religion if there ever was one.

Why must all things have a price-tag attached to them? Why must everything we do be bought with coin or achievement? Why are we so ruled by the tyranny of economy, that we would even impose it upon the provinces of God?

The baptism is a gift of God, free from any demand and price. When a child is baptised, it is not another life-style choice on par with being vegan, it is the reception of the mercy and goodwill of God for which nothing is paid. It can not be bought by achievements and will, as if it was just another thing to be consumed. That is why those who are baptised are truly free, for we have been given a place in a community where our identity is not defined by what we consume, but by who we are, the children of God. Would you hinder a child to come to the garden of the Lord, to recieve his blessing, merely because it is a child and therefore can not pay for it in ways of worship and adherence? For that is what you are proposing by saying that only adults should be baptised, and therefore you are implicitly saying that a child is not worthy of being given such a wonderful gift, because it can not pay for it. Well, as an answer to your cruel devotion to consumption, the God of Life proposes another economy, which says ""Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these" (Matt 19:14).

I guess that those who put a price on everything can not comprehend that which is priceless.

[Spaz Man]

I did without proper anesthesia at the age of 7. Yes it was painful but after a few minutes it was over. Newborns will feel far less pain and probably won't even remember. Circumcision is fine. It is a necessary cleansing process in Abrahamic religions.

[aljolson]

Why would a God give his male creation a foreskin, only to have an untrained (medical) priest, chop it off just after birth? The real reason behind circumcision of males is cleanliness, a lot of australian's have the procedure, or at least used to.

[minsat]

I think it's inevitable that if circumcision were made illegal then crazy people would attempt it themselves, without ANY medical training/qualifications and the results would be disastrous.

[ninth2]

(Original post by aljolson)
The real reason behind circumcision of males is cleanliness, a lot of australian's have the procedure, or at least used to.

No, the real reason behind it is that it was intended to stop/lessen masturbation. The idea was that by severing the movable skin in the penis, males would be unable to commit the 'sin' that is masturbation. The fact that the dried-out, bare penis head was gradually desensitized was also a big plus point for the freaks who advocate it, notably the lovely John Harvey Kellog. Heard that surname before? But yes, chop your hands off and they will stay cleaner, too.

I believe that circumcision should be perfectly legal when medially necessary, and then it is to be performed by a fully qualified doctor/surgeon, not a cataract infested old man. The sooner this disgustingly barbaric assault on baby boys is stopped, the better.

[Patriot Rich]

The problem is that it'll be forced underground

People aren't going to stop a religious practice that's been going on for thousands of years just because the law changes. Circumcisions will move away from hospitals to more 'backstreet' methods with the associated infections and accidents. It's part of the reason why abortion was legalized, because back alley abortions were dangerous and often left women scarred.

I'm an atheist so I have no religious justification for it, and of course the ideal solution would be that no one circumcises their son, but we have to be realistic.

[aljolson]

(Original post by Patriot Rich)
The problem is that it'll be forced underground

People aren't going to stop a religious practice that's been going on for thousands of years just because the law changes. Circumcisions will move away from hospitals to more 'backstreet' methods with the associated infections and accidents. It's part of the reason why abortion was legalized, because back alley abortions were dangerous and often left women scarred.

I'm an atheist so I have no religious justification for it, and of course the ideal solution would be that no one circumcises their son, but we have to be realistic.

This is sad but true. What gets me is because it's legal, it becomes moral, and defensible.

[aljolson]

(Original post by minsat)
I think it's inevitable that if circumcision were made illegal then crazy people would attempt it themselves, without ANY medical training/qualifications and the results would be disastrous.

Bobbit?

[mmmpie]

As distasteful as I personally find infant baptism, it's a symbolic thing and of little consequence.

Circumcision is a body modification. We don't allow people to be tattooed until they're 18, which is another more prominent example of body modification. So why do we allow cosmetic genital modification on babies? It's a bit double-standard-ish.

[TheGrinningSkull]

(Original post by Giant)
These are all very good points guys, but the reason I have a problem more so with circumcision as opposed to something like baptism is that circumcision is a permanent change to your body.

Sure baptism and childhood indoctrination can be just as potent psychologically, but they are not permanent bodily mutations like circumcision that require expensive and risky procedures to recover from.

Make of the info what you will, seems it goes in different directions for different factors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_...earch_findings

[Horatio-]

Personally I am indifferent because I do not think it causes serious trauma or lifetime pain like female circumcision. I am probably bias because my brothers had it done (not for religious reasons though). Not really much different from parents who have their children's ears pierced IMO.

That being said the only question I do have is how do people genuinely expect parents to not religiously influence their children. They raise them and teach them and their children observe and imitate them until they become their own thinkers. And when you believe something you obviously believe it is right until proven differently (unless you are delusional)

[KrishanC93]

yeah well if you choose to have a circumcision when you're older, it is going to hurt like f***ing hell. My position is that it can only be allowed if absolutely necessary, for example if a baby has problems weeing cause the foreskin is too long.

[360kal]

(Original post by Giant)
It would be interesting to hear the views of any Jews/Muslims/circumcised people in general. Do you oppose your circumcision at birth? Would you preferred to have chosen it for yourself? Or do you not mind at all?

I was born a Muslim, now an atheist . I was brought with the traditional Islamic views that circumcision was mandatory but wasn't quite clear why as to many of my the religions questions that i had. As i got older i started realising most non Muslims don't get circumcised and found i strange as its said to leads better sexual health and better hygiene.

I personally see the pros ans cons about this argument. The pros being what i said before hygiene so and so. and cons being the lack of choice to the individual being circumcised at a very early age and also risks of infections.

[DaveSmith99]

For medical reasons of course, religious reasons, no.

[DaveSmith99]

(Original post by Spaz Man)
I did without proper anesthesia at the age of 7. Yes it was painful but after a few minutes it was over. Newborns will feel far less pain and probably won't even remember. Circumcision is fine. It is a necessary cleansing process in Abrahamic religions.

Why?

[bananaslug77]

In a religious or cultural context it is a completely unnecessary, barbaric and outdated practice. How can anyone think that cutting off a piece of a baby's penis is doing any good for anyone at all? Totally pointless.

Circumcision should be reserved only for those with medical conditions where the individual actually needs their foreskin removed.

[Spaz Man]

(Original post by DaveSmith99)
Why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitra

Read all of it.