What happens in "heaven"?
Discuss religious, spiritual, and theological issues concerning Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any other religion.
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?Yeah, out of context and ignorant of the actual meaning. You were apparently expecting the Qur'an to specifically list all of the possible reactions one might have.(Original post by Xotol)
And my reply was that disbelievers who finally see heaven and a figure of divinity might actually accept God. I responded to the text you quoted.
Well, for some, no amount of evidence ever will be.(Original post by Xotol)
Apparently the "evidences" is not so conclusive though.
Well, that ain't surprising, it seems like you still have a lot to learn.(Original post by Xotol)
Yes. -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?Am I expecting too much from an omnipotent being?(Original post by Perseveranze)
Yeah, out of context and ignorant of the actual meaning. You were apparently expecting the Qur'an to specifically list all of the possible reactions one might have.
In all seriousness, look, the quote says what it says and I simply responded to it with a logical question. Read the quote again and notice that it did not say 'most' or 'many will say blah blah', it said 'they would blah', implying all. I am going with what I am given.
And for others, a book with a lot of convenient interpreting and a wild amount of extrapolation is all that is required to believe in a supernatural being.Well, for some, no amount of evidence ever will be.
You really could not be more condescending if you tried to.Well, that ain't surprising, it seems like you still have a lot to learn.
Btw, I'm still waiting for the reply on my post about established reality and its arbitrary use. And I'm sure there is still a post about Muhammad apparently being a paedophile that you need to respond too as well. -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?Well, for some it's the "easy" option, to keep expecting more and more.(Original post by Xotol)
Am I expecting too much from an omnipotent being?
No, it does not imply all. I'm sure you must know at the very least, that we don't interpret the Qur'an without hadiths. Also, taking the previous verse into context;(Original post by Xotol)
In all seriousness, look, the quote says what it says and I simply responded to it with a logical question. Read the quote again and notice that it did not say 'most' or 'many will say blah blah', it said 'they would blah', implying all. I am going with what I am given.
O Muhammad! Already We have sent Messengers before you among many of the ancient peoples. But they mocked at each of the Messengers who came to them. Though We cause it (Admonition) to enter into their hearts (like a rod), they would not believe in it.7 And the same has been the way of such people since ancient times. Even if We had opened a gate for them in heaven, and they had begun to ascend through it higher during day time, they would have said. "Our eyes have been dazzled; nay, we have been bewitched." [15:10-15]
It is clear that it's referring to a specific type of people. And since the meaning of the Qur'an is eternal, it can be applied in today's context - that there certainly are people, who would deny the existence of God, regardless of the proof that is presented to them.
Not at all, this is very dishonest generalization.(Original post by Xotol)
And for others, a book with a lot of convenient interpreting and a wild amount of extrapolation is all that is required to believe in a supernatural being.
1. We go by the earliest sources (stuff like Shia sources, Qur'anists etc. came much much later)
2. We go by the most reliable sources, this is based on hadith sciences, which was invented by the earliest Muslims who also acquired the earliest sources.
The chains of transmitters were therefore carefully scrutinised to make sure that the persons named could in fact have met one another, that they could be trusted to repeat the story accurately, and that they did not hold any heretical views. This implied extensive biographical studies; and many biographical dictionaries have been preserved giving the basic information about a man's teachers and pupils, the views of later scholars (on his reliability as a transmitter) and the date of his death. This biography-based critique of Traditions helped considerably to form a more or less common mind among many men throughout the caliphate about what was to be accepted and what rejected. - W. M. Watt, What Is Islam?, 1968, Longman, Green & Co. Ltd., pp. 124-125.
3. We go by the Scholarly consensus. In other words, scholars from different times in history, looking at the same sources and coming to the same conclusions. This makes interpretation very narrow, unless you believe there's some mass conspiracy through the ages going on.
So, it's factual to say, that the interpretation of the Qur'an has more objectivity, than say interpreting things like the Bible.
It's only the Muttashaabih that I've already told you about which has a more open interpretation, and these verses aren't considered as important because they don't tell us "how to be a Muslim" (they're only there to make us think/reflect etc.) like the Muhkam (clear) verses do. Which is where there's always a good consensus upon.
Could you please link, as I've been busy with exam and stuff. I also miss quotes on my sidebar.(Original post by Xotol)
Btw, I'm still waiting for the reply on my post about established reality and its arbitrary use.
If I remember correctly, instead of addressing the argument, you tried to get technical and attempted to undermine it.
Link please.(Original post by Xotol)
And I'm sure there is still a post about Muhammad apparently being a paedophile that you need to respond too as well.
Edit: I had a reply to the spelling accusation to show why your the one who was being dishonest. But i'll leave it to you whether you want to continue that in PM, since it would be off-topic here.Last edited by Perseveranze; 09-06-2012 at 01:13. -
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You get to meet THE real daddy.
On a serious note, I like to think of it as a continuation of our lives in spirit, in a setting of our imagination. It would be like a never-ending dream. We wouldn't be aware of time, kind of there but not at the same time.
I don't like to think there would be a hell, not a specific place for suffering. If the place you end up feels like hell, then maybe it's the remorse for a sin you committed, and that you feel like you should be in hell. But I think that it can also change, like having two dreams in one night. -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?[QUOTE=ExMuslim;37991807]LOL, contrary to what Pat Roberston says, sinning isn't a recent invention. The people of ancient times enjoyed just as much premarital sex and vices as we enjoy today. Even Muhammad couldn't wait for all the sex of heaven, seeing as he was married to nine women, with the youngest being just six years old.
she wasn't 6..she was 9..nd she was the only virgin amongst his wives...cz the others who he married were widows of martyred men..people have been spreading rumours about him being a peadophile but the girl remained a virgin...she was an orphan..nd noone to support her and that is y Prophet (PBUH) married her...this is y he married the widows too.... -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?lol that most certainly isn't an assuption...there is life after death...nd there is Heaven nd Hell!(Original post by blacklistmember)
he doest :P this whole thread it stupid, it assumes there is a heaven in the first place -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?Isn't it all Hadith and non-Quranic and therefore unknown and unprovable anyway either way?(Original post by sumzy101)
she wasn't 6..she was 9..nd she was the only virgin amongst his wives...cz the others who he married were widows of martyred men..people have been spreading rumours about him being a peadophile but the girl remained a virgin...she was an orphan..nd noone to support her and that is y Prophet (PBUH) married her...this is y he married the widows too....
It was pretty normal in Arab culture in those days for men to take very young wives, so there's no reason to think he didn't though. -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?You do know you're just a piece of software being run by your brain that is living in a simulation based on sensory input, right?(Original post by sumzy101)
lol that most certainly isn't an assuption...there is life after death...nd there is Heaven nd Hell! -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?at least you're happy(Original post by sumzy101)
lol that most certainly isn't an assuption...there is life after death...nd there is Heaven nd Hell! -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?Hadith is a proof! we are told to believe in hadith And Quran....
yes it was normal for men back then to take young wives but sadly because our Prophet did this he is still called a paedophile...where as they do not even know that this wife f his was the only virgin amongst his wives... -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?If someone who does deserve heaven is in love with someone who doesn't, then what happens? You can't separate them, because then it wouldn't be heaven for the deserving one, and you can't send both of them to the same place because that would be unjust.
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?The way I see it, it'll be earth with no evil or sin. You might have a job, but it would be the most perfect job you could ever have, in the the most amazing country, with the most amazing people.. Anything you can dream of and there wouldn't be anything to ruin it. No lies, no embarrassment, no wars. Heaven.
I struggle in following religion because I disagree with allot of what is said, however the concept of heaven is something I can find hope in, and is something that will guide me to do the right thing. -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?Is it bad I find the idea of heaven, or indeed an afterlife, terrifying?
What are you supposed to do for eternity? Absolutely ETERNITY? There's the idea of reincarnation which I guess is a little plausible from a scientific viewpoint, but I think it's a lot more comforting to think that you live a life, and then it ends. Everything has a set mechanism. The idea of a possible afterlife is horrifying to me. What would you feel like? Would you look at everything differently like the way you do in dreams? *shudders* -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?I think most intelligent people just find it "unlikely" rather than "terrifying".(Original post by Jabberwox)
Is it bad I find the idea of heaven, or indeed an afterlife, terrifying?
What are you supposed to do for eternity? Absolutely ETERNITY? There's the idea of reincarnation which I guess is a little plausible from a scientific viewpoint, but I think it's a lot more comforting to think that you live a life, and then it ends. Everything has a set mechanism. The idea of a possible afterlife is horrifying to me. What would you feel like? Would you look at everything differently like the way you do in dreams? *shudders* -
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Re: What happens in "heaven"?I'm not sure terrifying is the word, but I hate the idea. It really does sound awful to me.(Original post by SoNottingH)
I think most intelligent people just find it "unlikely" rather than "terrifying".
