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If it turns out God exists will he punish un-believers?

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    If God did exist, someone would try to sue him for not helping in times of war and suffering, etc. Thus, as he is mostly useless, he should not punish non-believers as they are only responding to his inactivity.
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    (Original post by waiting2smile)
    and you suposedly know that because you're knowledgable about it? :rolleyes:
    Yes.
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    In dante's divine comedy, those who are moral pagans (non-christians) are not cast into hell, but are placed in limbo, which is neither heaven or hell.

    This is because they have not accepted god into their lives, so they cannot be accepted by god into heaven, but they have not sinned so the devil has no power over them.

    They are left in a place with other virtuous pagans, with whom they can converse etc.
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    (Original post by quinnbrakes)
    Yes
    No
    LOL

    ofcourse not - it would be god's fault for being so subtle
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    (Original post by corey)
    That completly defeat the object of belief, should be rewarded for belief because we sought the benefit from it? Because we don't actually have the belief religion advocates.

    What happens if we pick the wrong God also? Could pick Allah when it's the Christian God!

    You cannot force yourself to believe something if you think it will be beneficial. For instance, there is no way you can believe tommorrow (knowing today is Friday) will be a Tuesday, it goes against something basic within you - just like people feel they cannot believe in God cannot just 'believe' in him.
    Oh yes, I see what you are saying. Well I believe because I know I have nothing to lose either way. But it's a true belief not just based on safety

    I always wonder if most religions say there is only one god then the others may not exist.
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    Oh yes, I see what you are saying. Well I believe because I know I have nothing to lose either way. But it's a true belief not just based on safety

    I always wonder if most religions say there is only one god then the others may not exist.
    The problem with religion is that there are too many simliarities in most of them to be a 'different god'. Most of the ideas are taken from Ancient times in Greece and Egypt.
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    (Original post by Joey_Johns)
    The problem with religion is that there are too many simliarities in most of them to be a 'different god'. Most of the ideas are taken from Ancient times in Greece and Egypt.
    Yes they all seem linked :confused: That's interesting, I thought all the Greek/Egyptian gods were a load of nonsense (obviously) and yet I'm happy to believe in moderner religions.

    Are you religious?
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    Yes they all seem linked :confused: That's interesting, I thought all the Greek/Egyptian gods were a load of nonsense (obviously) and yet I'm happy to believe in moderner religions.

    Are you religious?
    I did go to the most famous roman catholic schools in the country so I'm well up on the subject. I am a roman catholic and go to church. I just look at it like this, most of the morals in catholisims are good ones, others are outdated, I just try to live my life by the morals I believe are still relevent in todays world. I dont believe in god though, I've been educated so much on the matter I just realised how much it was humans way in the past of explaining the unexplainable. Good example being the walls of Jericho falling down because of God. It is no coincidence that where Jericho is located gets a hell of a lot of Earthquakes. There are countless examples of this.

    No, the Greek and Egyptian religions had different sects. It wasnt all a different god for a different part of life. Infact an Egyptian pharoh who changed the whole of Egyptian religion to the 'one god' theory, after his death, the next pharoh tried to destroy any evidence of his reign, strangley enough it is now common practice to believe in one god , it is archaelogical fact that this is where the Jews got their theory from, in other words the 'bleivers' migrated after the death of that pharoh because they would have been killed for practicing in Egypt, to what is modern day Israel over a period of time. And the rest they say is history.
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    (Original post by Joey_Johns)
    I did go to the most famous roman catholic schools in the country so I'm well up on the subject. I am a roman catholic and go to church. I just look at it like this, most of the morals in catholisims are good ones, others are outdated, I just try to live my life by the morals I believe are still relevent in todays world. I dont believe in god though, I've been educated so much on the matter I just realised how much it was humans way in the past of explaining the unexplainable. Good example being the walls of Jericho falling down because of God. It is no coincidence that where Jericho is located gets a hell of a lot of Earthquakes. There are countless examples of this.

    No, the Greek and Egyptian religions had different sects. It wasnt all a different god for a different part of life. Infact an Egyptian pharoh who changed the whole of Egyptian religion to the 'one god' theory, after his death, the next pharoh tried to destroy any evidence of his reign, strangley enough it is now common practice to believe in one god , it is archaelogical fact that this is where the Jews got their theory from, in other words the 'bleivers' migrated after the death of that pharoh because they would have been killed for practicing in Egypt, to what is modern day Israel over a period of time. And the rest they say is history.
    You're a roman catholic but don't believe in god, well that's not that often you hear that but I understand you! It's not that long agosince people thought getting ill or bad luck was because of god or spirits and I agree that god/paranormal probably is something which we label things which we can't explain. But I believe in something more powerful than us although am not intersted in following a religion 'cause most of it's a load of bull.

    Did you learn all that in your own time? Or study it as part of an exam?
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    You're a roman catholic but don't believe in god, well that's not that often you hear that but I understand you! It's not that long agosince people thought getting ill or bad luck was because of god or spirits and I agree that god/paranormal probably is something which we label things which we can't explain. But I believe in something more powerful than us although am not intersted in following a religion 'cause most of it's a load of bull.

    Did you learn all that in your own time? Or study it as part of an exam?
    Both. Not just exams, just been taught catholic and ancient history from age dot. Its quite amusing being taught by the classics teachers where religion actually comes from then the next lesson you have is R.E telling you something completely different

    My old school has some very old scriptures which are rather intersting, this is the most famous thing it owns probably:

    ''http://itsa.ucsf.edu/~snlrc/britannia/lindisfarne/stonyhurst.html''
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    (Original post by Moochy)
    i think if there is a god he should accept that people can believe what they want to believe. if they dont believe in him then he probly wudnt punish people for it.
    He does and that is why he gives everyone a choice.
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    (Original post by TheWolf)
    LOL

    ofcourse not - it would be god's fault for being so subtle
    no offense but that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. go outside and look at the sunset or the night sky, anything! Subtlties are not on the menu.
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    Well... I kinda beleive in something I've read lately, that most of you have probably heard of. It's Dante's "Inferno", a text that describes somewhat of a different "Hell" than the empty catchphrases of religions...

    In dante's divine comedy, those who are moral pagans (non-christians) are not cast into hell, but are placed in limbo, which is neither heaven or hell.
    Goshdarnit, you took my arguement! I'm gunna try expand on it a bit though...

    Now, the idea of Dante's "Inferno" is that there are nine different "circles" of hell. Each one is somewhat... unique to its inmates. Allow me to show you...

    Level 0 - Repenting Believers
    Level 1 - Virtuous Non-Believers
    Level 2 - Lustful
    Level 3 - Gluttonous
    Level 4 - Prodigal and Avaricious
    Level 5 - Wrathful and Gloomy
    Level 6 - Heretics
    Level 7 - Violent
    Level 8 - Fraudulent, Malicious, Panderers
    Level 9 - Treacherous

    Incidently, according to a quiz I have taken, I belong in level six (w00t, I'm a heretic), which I find quite awesome... Anyways. The idea behind this is that different types of sinners are sent to different levels of hell. I find this rather beleivable, actually, and somewhat logical that all of the virtuous people who don't beleive in God go to Limbo (1st Level), while those who beleive are sent to Purgatory (Level 0).

    And also, apparently, each level has different punishments also, for instance, Limbo is merely a place of nothingness while Cocytus (Level 9) is somewhat torturous. The idea of having all violent sinners punished in one way is somewhat "better" in my view...

    But anyway, in response to the question. Using Dante's Circles of Hell, people who do not beleive in God would then be judged on their actions. If virtuous, then they would be sent to Limbo which is described as the following:

    Charon ushers you across the river Acheron, and you find yourself upon the brink of grief's abysmal valley. You are in Limbo, a place of sorrow without torment. You encounter a seven-walled castle, and within those walls you find rolling fresh meadows illuminated by the light of reason, whereabout many shades dwell. These are the virtuous pagans, the great philosophers and authors, unbaptised children, and others unfit to enter the kingdom of heaven. You share company with Caesar, Homer, Virgil, Socrates, and Aristotle. There is no punishment here, and the atmosphere is peaceful, yet sad.

    Whether you see this as punishment or not is up to you.
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    surely if god is meant to be all loving and forgiving then all would be forgiven- if god can bring himself to forgive all the pedophiles in the catholic church then surely he could forgive good people with no religion who do not believe in him. however it is highly unlikely that the question will ever be answered- in the words of god- "i refuse to prove i exist for proof denies faith and without faith i am nothing"
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    (Original post by moncal)
    no offense but that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. go outside and look at the sunset or the night sky, anything! Subtlties are not on the menu.
    Let alone cancer, bilharzia, PKU, BSE...
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    (Original post by moncal)
    no offense but that is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. go outside and look at the sunset or the night sky, anything! Subtlties are not on the menu.
    LOL sure they are beautiful phenomenons, everyone has seen them - does everyone therefore believe in GOD?
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    (Original post by TheWolf)
    LOL sure they are beautiful phenomenons, everyone has seen them - does everyone therefore believe in GOD?
    The question ain't whether they persuade people to believe in god, but whether they're subtle.
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    (Original post by TheWolf)
    LOL sure they are beautiful phenomenons, everyone has seen them - does everyone therefore believe in GOD?
    So how to you propose that these "beautiful phenomenons" got here?
    Big bang? Evolution? Oh and my favorite, Spontaneous generation.
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    In order to rationally qualify yes as an answer to the question, I'd either be required to discard logic as a means of solution or construct a very complex set of interacting universes as an explanation. Neither seems helpful to the solution, so no.
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    Just out of curiosity, who voted yes besides me?
Updated: April 12, 2004
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