[Mr Dangermouse]

I'm sat here this Friday morning, a 17 year old young man with a dead end life.

I have a part time job, which I am very grateful for, as these are in short supply and it will help me through university, which I'm starting in September, to do a degree in Actuarial Science, which again I'm happy to be going into the field, because I enjoy it and it's financially rewarding.



And now the bad stuff, I was a t*at a few years back. When I was 12 or 13 and all my schoolmates started experimenting with alcohol, I became scared and introverted and lost all my friends. Nowadays I'm much more of a party loving extrovert, but I don't get asked along to much. I'm also not particularly close with my family, I love them and everything, but I can't wait to move out of the home(I blame them a lot for losing my childhood friends)

Now, when my degree finishes I'm looking to go abroad. I have few loyalties here bar a couple of visits back a year to see my family and can think of little better than getting out of the UK and making a fresh start abroad. I'll get a fresh start this September, but after uni you go your separate ways from the people there so I want to move away.


Right now I live in the UK, a member of the EU, and it's always at the back of my mind that really whenever I want I can get on a plane and go and make a new life for myself anywhere in the European union. I could go to Germany, to Spain, to Austria, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic the list goes on and on and on. This is a great feeling of freedom to have and I'm sure many of you feel the same way.

So I ask you now, how can we look the future generation, our children, and their children, in the eye, if we deny them this opportunity of freedom?

[Organ]

I agree that we should remain in the EU.

We would still have freedom of movement however (I imagine) given that Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein all have this privilege as well.

[MagicNMedicine]

(Original post by Mr Dangermouse)
Right now I live in the UK, a member of the EU, and it's always at the back of my mind that really whenever I want I can get on a plane and go and make a new life for myself anywhere in the European union. I could go to Germany, to Spain, to Austria, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic the list goes on and on and on. This is a great feeling of freedom to have and I'm sure many of you feel the same way.

So I ask you now, how can we look the future generation, our children, and their children, in the eye, if we deny them this opportunity of freedom?

lol if you qualify as an actuary why would you want to work in Bulgaria or the Czech Republic

[seanfromtheblock]

(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
lol if you qualify as an actuary why would you want to work in Bulgaria or the Czech Republic

I don't know anything about Bulgaria, but the Czech Republic is a beautiful country, and I'd imagine they need actuaries.

[Aj12]

Plenty of reasons really. Whilst freedom of movement is nice it hardly makes up for the massive hash that has been made of the single currency and other economic factors which are adversely affecting the UK right now.

[DynamicSyngery]

(Original post by Mr Dangermouse)
Right now I live in the UK, a member of the EU, and it's always at the back of my mind that really whenever I want I can get on a plane and go and make a new life for myself anywhere in the European union. I could go to Germany, to Spain, to Austria, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic the list goes on and on and on.

The problem is all these countries have worse prospects than the UK, with the possible exception of Germany, and they all speak different languages, which always was the main practical impediment to picking up and leaving for them.

Now if we had free residency with the US, Canada and Australia, that would be something with a tangible use for a lot of people in Britain.

[Mr Dangermouse]

(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
lol if you qualify as an actuary why would you want to work in Bulgaria or the Czech Republic

I was just throwing in examples.

[insignificant]

(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
The problem is all these countries have worse prospects than the UK, with the possible exception of Germany, and they all speak different languages, which always was the main practical impediment to picking up and leaving for them.

Now if we had free residency with the US, Canada and Australia, that would be something with a tangible use for a lot of people in Britain.

I think if we were allowed to freely move to the US that this country wouldn't exist anymore haha. I'd pack my bags and be off.

[Aeonstorm]

(Original post by Aj12)
Plenty of reasons really. Whilst freedom of movement is nice it hardly makes up for the massive hash that has been made of the single currency and other economic factors which are adversely affecting the UK right now.

Leaving the EU isn't gonna change the fact that the UK is inexorably tied to the European economy because of its proximity (trade) and because London is the financial hub of Europe. However, there is a strong argument for the UK not to enter monetary or fiscal union as that would, I agree, screw the country over (unless all the weaker states are ejected, leaving Germany, Belgium etc)

[MrHayden]

(Original post by Mr Dangermouse)
So I ask you now, how can we look the future generation, our children, and their children, in the eye, if we deny them this opportunity of freedom?

Because it costs us an estimated £118 billion a year?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...bn-a-year.html

[DynamicSyngery]

(Original post by Aeonstorm)
Leaving the EU isn't gonna change the fact that the UK is inexorably tied to the European economy because of its proximity (trade) and because London is the financial hub of Europe. However, there is a strong argument for the UK not to enter monetary or fiscal union as that would, I agree, screw the country over (unless all the weaker states are ejected, leaving Germany, Belgium etc)

Geographical proximity has got to be about the least important issue in the 21st century. This is an age where disposable goods like bananas are shipped by air to be sold for a few pence, and the cost of shipping with actual ships has dropped almost to nothing. The big growth area of today - the information economy - never was tied to physical presence in the first place.

As an idea if not as practical implementation, the EU is rooted firmly in the 1930s.

[Aeonstorm]

(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
Geographical proximity has got to be about the least important issue in the 21st century. This is an age where disposable goods like bananas are shipped by air to be sold for a few pence, and the cost of shipping with actual ships has dropped almost to nothing. The big growth area of today - the information economy - never was tied to physical presence in the first place.

As an idea if not as practical implementation, the EU is rooted firmly in the 1930s.

While what you say is true, geographical proximity has an importance not derived from cost, but from shared history, culture, and even the EU itself. Britain is inherently European and thus it is necessarily linked with the continent in the minds of investors. The EU's freedom of movement and role as a regional trading bloc means that Britain's location in the European region does in fact affect it.

[DynamicSyngery]

(Original post by Aeonstorm)
While what you say is true, geographical proximity has an importance not derived from cost, but from shared history, culture, and even the EU itself. Britain is inherently European and thus it is necessarily linked with the continent in the minds of investors. The EU's freedom of movement and role as a regional trading bloc means that Britain's location in the European region does in fact affect it.

Market doesn't give a damn about culture. I don't have any linguistic or cultural commonality with whatever person in China made my shirt, my computer, and all the white goods in my flat. But he is pretty damn cheap, so we get along.

The cultural/historical ties are a nationalism issue - like I said, the 1930s.

[chrisawhitmore]

Ok: EU leaving myths, quick rundown.

1. We will stop trading with Europe. Wrong. The EU members can not afford to stop trading with us, nor can they afford to be seen to be punishing members for leaving (especially if we leave off the back of a referendum).

2. We won't be able to go to Europe. Wrong. We managed before we had freedom of movement, and anyone who has a degree and a job waiting for them will not be denied a visa, even if we choose to leave a free movement treaty (separate to the EU).

[Morgsie]

As the Leader of the Pro-Europe Society I agree with the reasons about staying in.

Economics mainly

[Silkielemon]

(Original post by MrHayden)
Because it costs us an estimated £118 billion a year?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...bn-a-year.html

Because 2 people who wrote a book estimate it was £118 billion a year it makes it so?

[MrHayden]

(Original post by Silkielemon)
Because 2 people who wrote a book estimate it was £118 billion a year it makes it so?

Note how both of us used the word estimated. It may well be a lot less, but even if it was half the amount of money of that estimate it would still be a big enough deal for it to actually be worth thinking about, which is the point I am trying to make - as the OP clearly thinks that the issue is a no-brainer. Which it isn't.

[Mr Dangermouse]

(Original post by MrHayden)
Because it costs us an estimated £118 billion a year?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...bn-a-year.html

A small price to pay for the wonderful freedom.

[Mr Dangermouse]

(Original post by chrisawhitmore)
Ok: EU leaving myths, quick rundown.

1. We will stop trading with Europe. Wrong. The EU members can not afford to stop trading with us, nor can they afford to be seen to be punishing members for leaving (especially if we leave off the back of a referendum).

2. We won't be able to go to Europe. Wrong. We managed before we had freedom of movement, and anyone who has a degree and a job waiting for them will not be denied a visa, even if we choose to leave a free movement treaty (separate to the EU).

Right now you don't need a job.

[DynamicSyngery]

(Original post by Mr Dangermouse)
Right now you don't need a job.

How many people do you think move to the EU to get a job, honestly? I would guess this doesn't even cross the mind of 95% of people who are unemployed.

It applies to, at most, the top 10-20% of earners, and those people have mobility to almost anywhere in the world. Generally I would guess they will prefer countries where they don't have to learn a whole new language, and that actually have lower unemployment than the UK.