[L i b]

(Original post by chrisawhitmore)
Ok: EU leaving myths, quick rundown.

1. We will stop trading with Europe. Wrong. The EU members can not afford to stop trading with us, nor can they afford to be seen to be punishing members for leaving (especially if we leave off the back of a referendum).

Yes they can indeed afford to be seen doing that. As for trading, they certainly will - we will have tariffs and duties applied to our goods like any other non-EU/EFTA country.

2. We won't be able to go to Europe. Wrong. We managed before we had freedom of movement, and anyone who has a degree and a job waiting for them will not be denied a visa, even if we choose to leave a free movement treaty (separate to the EU).

That's utter rot.

[Rakas21]

I also support retaining membership of the EU.

Whilst i accept that there are many issues plaguing the EU at the moment i see the potential of the EU and am not averse to eventual political unification although not at the moment.

At least 40% of our exports go to the EU, a block which is seeking ever increasing integration in a world which is also seeking ever further integration with several smaller blocks forming within (South America already has a customs union with the express goal of political unification) and there is the prospect of a North American unification .

Now i am not going to a be a doom monger and say that the UK will go into terminal decline, were we to restructure the economy then we should see sustained economic growth of 3%+ however we will certainly decline in international political influence which as a globalist is certainly unnerving.

I will say also that while i understand those who value sovereignty objecting to EU membership i feel that many other people are simply attempting to take advantage of the current crisis via political opportunism in giving the impression that leaving the EU would make a blind bit of difference should the Euro implode, we would still trade the same amount and such would still be just as exposed.

Personally i am open to allowing the crisis to unfold and to see the solution offered, the time at which i will support a referendum is the time at which either the Eurozone disintegrates or engages in full political union (a proper in-out referendum as opposed to the current offer of out-status-quo).

As for the future, i believe that should the Eurozone and UK ever meet the Maastrikt treaty conditions then i would be open to considering union. Politically i would support an eventual goal of taxation, energy and transport being devolved to the federal states.

To me culture is nothing, i have more in common with those in Berlin than i do in Aberiswyth and as such believe that with a common language policy (English and Spanish being mandatory) we could in 20-30 have a fully functional unified Federal Republic Of Europe.

[chrisawhitmore]

(Original post by Rakas21)
I also support retaining membership of the EU.

Whilst i accept that there are many issues plaguing the EU at the moment i see the potential of the EU and am not averse to eventual political unification although not at the moment.

At least 40% of our exports go to the EU, a block which is seeking ever increasing integration in a world which is also seeking ever further integration with several smaller blocks forming within (South America already has a customs union with the express goal of political unification) and there is the prospect of a North American unification .

Now i am not going to a be a doom monger and say that the UK will go into terminal decline, were we to restructure the economy then we should see sustained economic growth of 3%+ however we will certainly decline in international political influence which as a globalist is certainly unnerving.

I will say also that while i understand those who value sovereignty objecting to EU membership i feel that many other people are simply attempting to take advantage of the current crisis via political opportunism in giving the impression that leaving the EU would make a blind bit of difference should the Euro implode, we would still trade the same amount and such would still be just as exposed.

Personally i am open to allowing the crisis to unfold and to see the solution offered, the time at which i will support a referendum is the time at which either the Eurozone disintegrates or engages in full political union (a proper in-out referendum as opposed to the current offer of out-status-quo).

As for the future, i believe that should the Eurozone and UK ever meet the Maastrikt treaty conditions then i would be open to considering union. Politically i would support an eventual goal of taxation, energy and transport being devolved to the federal states.

To me culture is nothing, i have more in common with those in Berlin than i do in Aberiswyth and as such believe that with a common language policy (English and Spanish being mandatory) we could in 20-30 have a fully functional unified Federal Republic Of Europe.

This would be all well and good if the EU delivered economically (if it increased the power of its members in the global economy) however, it is failing to do so. Between 1969 and 2009 the EU-15's share of world GDP dropped by 9% and is expected to fall a further 10% by 2020 (EU figures). By contrast the USA recorded a slight 0.4% growth in share over the same 40 year period. The EU is not delivering global influence, but rather presiding over, and assisting in, the decline of its members. Oh, and the rise of global trade blocs is largely due to the EU making aid payments conditional on the formation of such blocs.

[DynamicSyngery]

(Original post by L i b)
Yes they can indeed afford to be seen doing that. As for trading, they certainly will - we will have tariffs and duties applied to our goods like any other non-EU/EFTA country.

And also will no longer be forced to impose tariffs on the world's growth areas. Restrictions will be increased on trade with about 20% of the world's GDP, and decreased on the other 80%.

EU's importance to our trade is overstated in the first place because it is a protectionist bloc whose tariff system is set up to make it difficult to trade outside the EU. Before this system was introduced most of Britain's trade was not with the continent.

That's utter rot.

It's the case for every other developed country. Who exactly wants to work in the moribund EU anyway?

[Ben Butler]

Cameron annoys me the most because he is doing nothing, while his sidekick Osbourne makes these pathetic forecasts of an economic storm in a massion. Well worked out Einstein. Blair campaigned for Britain to be player in Europe, Brown was the man who came up with the trillion pounds bailout in the G20 in 2009, yet Cameron sits back and hopes that the inevitable collapse of the EU will have no impact on the UK. Fat chance of that.

This current coalition government offer no chance of Europe or this country getting out of this mess by showing collective utility, rather than the dangerous blackmailing/trade wars that are going on currently. It reminds me of 1930s Europe with the current divisions.