[xXxiKillxXx]

The 154 suicides for active-duty troops in the first 155 days of the year far outdistance the U.S. forces killed in action in Afghanistan — about 50 percent more — according to Pentagon statistics obtained by The Associated Press.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47726225...-combat-eases/

I guess murdering innocent women and children causes your head to mess up..

[xXxiKillxXx]

Bump, I think this is worth a discussion

[DawnRaider]

More american servicemen have killed themselves than all islamic fundamentalists like alqueada and taleban combined have managed.

Thats is a similar trend following Vietnam.
PTS post war is a massive problem

[madders94]

(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
Bump, I think this is worth a discussion

Worth a decision, perhaps, but I think your evidently-biased opening post is putting people off.

[thunder_chunky]

(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47726225...-combat-eases/

I guess murdering innocent women and children causes your head to mess up..

They don't all murder women and children so it's a pretty silly thing to say. And this isn't surprising, sadly. I once heard a statistic that stated that since the Falklands the number of veterans of said conflict who have committed suicide outnumbers the amount of servicemen killed in the conflict itself.

[Aj12]

(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47726225...-combat-eases/

I guess murdering innocent women and children causes your head to mess up..

Merely being in a combat situation messes your head up.

[xXxiKillxXx]

(Original post by Aj12)
Merely being in a combat situation messes your head up.

Not necessarily, I'm sure the suicide rate amongst those defending their lands isn't high (even though they actually employ suicide as a technique to fight the enemy)..

(Original post by madders94)
Worth a decision, perhaps, but I think your evidently-biased opening post is putting people off.

Well considering that recently it was discovered that the US military is teaching soldiers to wage war against Islam and all Muslims, then its pretty hard not to be ''biased''

(Original post by thunder_chunky)
They don't all murder women and children so it's a pretty silly thing to say. And this isn't surprising, sadly. I once heard a statistic that stated that since the Falklands the number of veterans of said conflict who have committed suicide outnumbers the amount of servicemen killed in the conflict itself.

Well they are all taught that a total war against all 1.4 billion Muslims is necessary (and this is in the public domain, imagine what is being covered up!)..

[DynamicSyngery]

There are 1.5 million active duty US servicemen. This 154 suicides in 155 days gives an annual suicide rate of 0.02%. This compares to the total US population suicide rate of 0.012%, or 0.03% in South Korea.

So US servicemen kill themselves a bit more often than the general US population, but less than non-military populations of some other developed countries.

For that matter, if murdering innocents caused people to kill themselves en masse there would be no need for the US military to fight Islamists in the first place.

edit: "The 2012 active-duty suicide total of 154 through June 3 compares to 130 in the same period last year, an 18 percent increase."

Last year's numbers give a rate of 0.015%, which is hardly different to the general population rate and possibly the same or lower when correcting for socio-economic status. It remains to be seen whether the "increase" this year is an actual increase or just the law of small numbers at work.

Daily Mail-standard journalism from MSNBC here, frankly.

[Aj12]

(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
Not necessarily, I'm sure the suicide rate amongst those defending their lands isn't high (even though they actually employ suicide as a technique to fight the enemy)..

Well find some statistics to back that up then?

[Tommyjw]

(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
There are 1.5 million active duty US servicemen. This 154 suicides in 155 days gives an annual suicide rate of 0.02%. This compares to the total US population suicide rate of 0.012%, or 0.03% in South Korea.

So US servicemen kill themselves a bit more often than the general US population, but less than non-military populations of some other developed countries.

For that matter, if murdering innocents caused people to kill themselves en masse there would be no need for the US military to fight Islamists in the first place.

edit: "The 2012 active-duty suicide total of 154 through June 3 compares to 130 in the same period last year, an 18 percent increase."

Last year's numbers give a rate of 0.015%, which is hardly different to the general population rate and possibly the same or lower when correcting for socio-economic status. It remains to be seen whether the "increase" this year is an actual increase or just the law of small numbers at work.

Daily Mail-standard journalism from MSNBC here, frankly.

All of this, ofcourse, massively assuming every single person is included. Including enlisted and civilian, not just those miltary eole involved in combat.

[DynamicSyngery]

(Original post by Tommyjw)
All of this, ofcourse, massively assuming every single person is included. Including enlisted and civilian, not just those miltary eole involved in combat.

It says "active-duty troops", so I took the total number of active duty troops. I don't believe it includes civilians. Why is it more of an assumption to take the plain english meaning of the words rather than to assume it applies only to a tiny subsection of those?

Of course, the article implies, by comparing with combat deaths then launching into extended spiel about how this is all due to bu****ler's imperialist wars, that this is deaths in Afghanistan. That's what makes it gutter journalism, worse than most in the Mail.

It would be different if the subtext were more like "These Taliban guys are so incompetent they can't even kill us faster than we kill ourselves." which is the real take-home from this story.


edit: The article actually does explicitly state that this is among the entire active duty population of all five branches of the US armed forces: "The numbers are rising among the 1.4 million active-duty military personnel".

Although on second read, I think this is the most shocking line: "But this year has seen record numbers of soldiers being killed by Afghan troops, and there also have been several scandals involving U.S. troop misconduct." What Afghan troops would those be? The troops of the lawfully constituted government of Afghanistan, who are on the US side? Or did MSNBC just bypass the UN and recognise the Taliban as the legitimate government of Afghanistan?

[Cannotbelieveit]

Problem is that Governments are very lacklustre when it comes to dealing with PTSD.

I also can't help but notice the complete ignorance and stupidity of the OP in his first post.

[xXxiKillxXx]

(Original post by Aj12)
Well find some statistics to back that up then?

Well there are no reports on it at all, probably because its a non-existent problem

[Drewski]

(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
Well considering that recently it was discovered that the US military is teaching soldiers to wage war against Islam and all Muslims, then its pretty hard not to be ''biased''
Well they are all taught that a total war against all 1.4 billion Muslims is necessary (and this is in the public domain, imagine what is being covered up!)..

No they weren't.

One lecture attended by some officer cadets during their training was presented by an individual who expressed an opinion. His opinion was unpalatable by many. Just because he presented his opinion to some members of the military does not mean the military was saying "we must do this, it sounds awesome".
When I was in the RAF I attended a lecture calling a Falklands VC winner an awful leader, a megalomaniac and a buffoon. Does this mean I was taught that? No, I was presented an opinion, some facts and invited to make up my own mind. The situation was similar in the States.

But, of course, you'll ignore this and say anything the military does is inherently wrong and evil

[Aj12]

(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
Well there are no reports on it at all, probably because its a non-existent problem

I don't think you understand PTSD and other problems that are caused by being in combat any kind of combat. It's not something that just does not happen if you believe in your cause enough or are defending your land. The fact the French suffered from it in ww1 as well as the Germans in ww2 testifies to that.

Let's have a look at a few other countries that have this problem or one like it:

Russia
United Kingdom
Canada
The French army in 1900
South Korea
Japan
Israel

The US has one of the largest militarys in the world and combat operations will cause a rise in suicide rates. This happens to any country regardless of the cause they are fighting for or why. Many countries just won't keep statistics on it though. or at least won't be public about it due to the damage it can do to their country.

[xXxiKillxXx]

(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
There are 1.5 million active duty US servicemen. This 154 suicides in 155 days gives an annual suicide rate of 0.02%. This compares to the total US population suicide rate of 0.012%, or 0.03% in South Korea.

So US servicemen kill themselves a bit more often than the general US population, but less than non-military populations of some other developed countries.

For that matter, if murdering innocents caused people to kill themselves en masse there would be no need for the US military to fight Islamists in the first place.

edit: "The 2012 active-duty suicide total of 154 through June 3 compares to 130 in the same period last year, an 18 percent increase."

Last year's numbers give a rate of 0.015%, which is hardly different to the general population rate and possibly the same or lower when correcting for socio-economic status. It remains to be seen whether the "increase" this year is an actual increase or just the law of small numbers at work.

Daily Mail-standard journalism from MSNBC here, frankly.

There are several things you have failed to consider in your calculation. You said that there are 1.5 million active duty service men; this is roughly right BUT the number serving in Afghanistan and Iraq is far less:

As of 31 December 2009, a total of 1,137,568 personnel were on active duty within the United States and its territories (including 84,461 afloat).[24] The vast majority, 941,629 of them, were stationed at various bases within the Contiguous United States. There were an additional 37,245 in Hawaii and 20,450 in Alaska. 84,461 were at sea, 2,972 in Guam, and 179 in Puerto Rico.

Also, you didn't calculate the TOTAL number of suicides since 2001.. You simply used the 2012 figure.

[Drewski]

(Original post by Aj12)
I don't think you understand PTSD and other problems that are caused by being in combat any kind of combat. It's not something that just does not happen if you believe in your cause enough or are defending your land. The fact the French suffered from it in ww1 as well as the Germans in ww2 testifies to that.

Let's have a look at a few other countries that have this problem or one like it:

Russia
United Kingdom
Canada
The French army in 1900
South Korea
Japan
Israel

The US has one of the largest militarys in the world and combat operations will cause a rise in suicide rates. This happens to any country regardless of the cause they are fighting for or why. Many countries just won't keep statistics on it though. or at least won't be public about it due to the damage it can do to their country.

And indeed, added to that is the fact that it's been a very misunderstood problem, with the condition only really being acknowledged as existing in the last 10yrs.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47726225...-combat-eases/

I guess murdering innocent women and children causes your head to mess up..

i think its more seeing their friends and comrades being blown to pieces by IED's and shot in the head tbh...

[Aj12]

(Original post by Drewski)
And indeed, added to that is the fact that it's been a very misunderstood problem, with the condition only really being acknowledged as existing in the last 10yrs.

Really? I thought it was just after Vietnam it was acknowledged?

[DynamicSyngery]

(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
There are several things you have failed to consider in your calculation. You said that there are 1.5 million active duty service men; this is roughly right BUT the number serving in Afghanistan and Iraq is far less:

It's not just considering them. It's all suicides in the entire US military.

Actually I was unfair in my analysis: I compared to US total population suicide rate, which is brought down a lot by females who have a low suicide rate. The US general population male suicide rate is 0.02%. Since the US military is disproportionately men, it probably has a lower suicide rate than the general population.