American troops: 154 suicides in 155 days
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysThe US became aware there was an issue post-Vietnam, but it wasn't really until after Iraq (90-91) that it became a 'thing', especially in this country.(Original post by Aj12)
Really? I thought it was just after Vietnam it was acknowledged? -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysThe number in Iraq and Afghanistan at any one time was far less, you're quite correct, but the number did serve in Iraq and/or Afghanistan at one time or another covers a substantial portion of those 1 million. Of course some did multiple tours, so that will skew the numbers somewhat.(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
There are several things you have failed to consider in your calculation. You said that there are 1.5 million active duty service men; this is roughly right BUT the number serving in Afghanistan and Iraq is far less: -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysThe figures are not suicides just among troops in combat.(Original post by Drewski)
The number in Iraq and Afghanistan at any one time was far less, you're quite correct, but the number did serve in Iraq and/or Afghanistan at one time or another covers a substantial portion of those 1 million. Of course some did multiple tours, so that will skew the numbers somewhat.
There is no suicide epidemic.
It is bull**** pirouetted on journalist not-quite-lies. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysAnd I never said they were anything but, I was merely countering the OP's assertation that since only ~250-300,000 were serving abroad at any one time that that was the total number of people exposed to that kind of environment.(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
The figures are not suicides just among troops in combat.
There is no suicide epidemic.
It is bull**** pirouetted on journalist not-quite-lies. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysAh, I misunderstood you somewhat.(Original post by Drewski)
And I never said they were anything but, I was merely countering the OP's assertation that since only ~250-300,000 were serving abroad at any one time that that was the total number of people exposed to that kind of environment.
Though to the whole topic about PTSD and how it apparently is treated with neglect by govts - there seems to be no evidence from these figures that the US military has suicide rates any higher than for people who are not in the military. So there's not really any need to assign blame to anyone about anything. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysThe argument is, though, that the people in the military should be rigorously checked and looked after with regards to this. Their physical health is more closely monitored than members of the public, so so should their mental health.(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
Ah, I misunderstood you somewhat.
Though to the whole topic about PTSD and how it apparently is treated with neglect by govts - there seems to be no evidence from these figures that the US military has suicide rates any higher than for people who are not in the military. So there's not really any need to assign blame to anyone about anything. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysMaybe it is? The implication is that there's some crazy suicide rate, like 1% or something that it would be if these were casualties just among troops in Afg. But actually it's either slightly higher, the same (within margin of error) or lower than the general population, and whatever figures are used, within the range for civilian suicide rates in developed countries.(Original post by Drewski)
The argument is, though, that the people in the military should be rigorously checked and looked after with regards to this. Their physical health is more closely monitored than members of the public, so so should their mental health.
And that's only with a recent spike in suicides; it seems to have been lower for the entire previous 11 years of low intensity war.
So there's really no evidence here to conclude that soldiers aren't being looked after. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 days/thread(Original post by DynamicSyngery)
There are 1.5 million active duty US servicemen. This 154 suicides in 155 days gives an annual suicide rate of 0.02%. This compares to the total US population suicide rate of 0.012%, or 0.03% in South Korea.
So US servicemen kill themselves a bit more often than the general US population, but less than non-military populations of some other developed countries.
For that matter, if murdering innocents caused people to kill themselves en masse there would be no need for the US military to fight Islamists in the first place.
edit: "The 2012 active-duty suicide total of 154 through June 3 compares to 130 in the same period last year, an 18 percent increase."
Last year's numbers give a rate of 0.015%, which is hardly different to the general population rate and possibly the same or lower when correcting for socio-economic status. It remains to be seen whether the "increase" this year is an actual increase or just the law of small numbers at work.
Daily Mail-standard journalism from MSNBC here, frankly. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysIt's perfectly easy not to be biased as long as you don't believe everything the media feed to you. Not all soldiers are murderer, and as for innocent people, as callous as it sounds, Muslims were responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people in 9/11 and over 50 in the 7/7 bombings, so you can't say it's completely one-sided against the oh-so-perfect Muslims.(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
Well considering that recently it was discovered that the US military is teaching soldiers to wage war against Islam and all Muslims, then its pretty hard not to be ''biased'' -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysYeah, true. I think it's also to do with the fact that not many soldiers can re-adjust to normal society. Sebastian Junger elaborates on it, for anyone who is interested.(Original post by cl_steele)
i think its more seeing their friends and comrades being blown to pieces by IED's and shot in the head tbh... -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysFor the elites it doesn't matter if 154 soldiers die or not. As long as they carry out their orders successfuly whilst on missions, the casualties of war on both sides will justify the ends. This is how the elite think.
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysOh really, they are taught that generally and across the board are they?(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
Well they are all taught that a total war against all 1.4 billion Muslims is necessary (and this is in the public domain, imagine what is being covered up!)..
Don't talk nonsense.
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysYou like the idea of people committing suicide do you? What a lovely individual you are.(Original post by Indian_Princess)
serves them right, shouldn't have gone in to start with. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysno, but i don't particularly mind the idea of murderers committing suicide.(Original post by Aj12)
You like the idea of people committing suicide do you? What a lovely individual you are. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysSo you know everyone of those men personally and the exact reason they killed themselves then? You know their services records back to front?(Original post by Indian_Princess)
no, but i don't particularly mind the idea of murderers committing suicide. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 days(Original post by Indian_Princess)
serves them right, shouldn't have gone in to start with. What a wonderful thing to say.
Not that I was planning to take you seriously but labelling them "murderers" is stupid.(Original post by Indian_Princess)
no, but i don't particularly mind the idea of murderers committing suicide. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysDoes it make you depressed knowing that everyone who listens to you thinks you're a joke?(Original post by Indian_Princess)
no, but i don't particularly mind the idea of murderers committing suicide. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysIgnoring the nonsense in the rest of your post (if the USA actually wanted to destroy Islam it could do it in a matter of weeks; no one could stop them); there was a high PTSD rate amonst Finnish machine gunners who fought in the Winter War against the Soviets - the reason being that they would often end up killing hundreds of Soviet troops. And the people the USA is fighting in Afghanistan aren't "defending their lands"; they are trying to impose their will on the nation by completely non-democratic means. They are no better than the USA and given how they ruled previously there are good reasons to think Afghanistan would be a worse place if they won.(Original post by xXxiKillxXx)
Not necessarily, I'm sure the suicide rate amongst those defending their lands isn't high (even though they actually employ suicide as a technique to fight the enemy).. -
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Re: American troops: 154 suicides in 155 daysI hope this thread doesn't sum up the attitude of most of TSR. The people fighting against NATO forces aren't the average Joe afghan. They are made up of a range of people. Lots of them are from Pakistan, hence the drone strikes taking place. Some are there for the money that the Taleban pays them. Some are there for the poppies.
If comparing NATO forces with the 'other side', the other side are definitely the murderers. Beheading women for daring to go to school/have a job? Killing their fellow countrymen with a suicide bomb so they can get to heaven? Taking charity workers hostage/killing them? etc
