[DawnRaider]

In the run up to The European Championships in Poland/Ukraine this summer, more abnd more details is coming out about the underbelly of racism in those counties, aprticulalry in football. Today the black players of the Dutch team in training camp faced racist chants from Polish spectators and UEFA seemd suitabley bemused to pass comment.

It has been said that Poland and Ukraine is still extremely ethnically homogenus and are whre Britain was in the late 1960's, before the substanital immigration we saw and later promotion of 'Multicultalralism' which has lead to a much more diverse population. Football in the UK has changed dramatically since the 60s and 70s where it probably wasnt safe for a non white person to go to a football match.

Now we are being told that black, jewish, asian, oriental etc fans should stay away or proceed with extreme caution in attendance of Euro 2012 matches, following the revalations of the Panorama documentry.

Intersting also that UEFAs Platini is trying to confound Uk critics by suggessting Britain has the same problem - i know we arnt perfect, but he is definatly living in the past.

Is this the consequence of an anti multiculralism policy?

[meenu89]

(Original post by DawnRaider)
In the run up to Te European Championships in Poland/Ukraine this summer, more abnd more details is coming out about the underbelly of racism in those counties, aprticulalry in football. Today the black players of the Dutch team in training camp faced racist chants from Polish spectators and UEFA seemd suitabley bemused to pass comment.

It has been said that Poland and Ukraine is still extremely ethnically homogenus and are whre Britain was in the late 1960's, before the substanital immigration we saw and later promotion of 'Multicultalralism' which has lead to a much more diverse population. Football in the UK has changed dramatically since the 60s and 70s where it probably wasnt safe for a non white person to go to a football match.

Now we are being told that black, jewish, asian, oriental etc fans should stay away or proceed with extreme caution in attendance of Euro 2012 matches, following the revalations of the Panorama documentry.

Intersting also that UEFAs Platini is trying to confound Uk critics by suggessting Britain has the same problem - i know we arnt perfect, but he is definatly living in the past.

Is this the consequence of an anti multiculralism policy?

Don't forget Poland and Ukraine (as part of the USSR) were stuck behind an 'Iron Curtain'. I don't think comparisons can be made.

[DawnRaider]

(Original post by meenu89)
Don't forget Poland and Ukraine (as part of the USSR) were stuck behind an 'Iron Curtain'. I don't think comparisons can be made.

So was east germany. all have been 'non russian' for about 25 years now, so that isnt an excuse, look at the leaps we have made in 25 years

[meenu89]

(Original post by DawnRaider)
So was east germany. all have been 'non russian' for about 25 years now, so that isnt an excuse, look at the leaps we have made in 25 years

Britain had links with commonwealth countries, many of which included people of different races. They started coming here in the 60s and 70s, and we all know what was happening in Poland and Ukraine at that time.

[. . .]

I still don't know how Poland-Ukraine won and were allowed to host it.

[I Kant Spall]

Were black players harassed at the '02 World Cup in two other racially homogeneous countries, Korea and Japan? These are two prosperous countries with high standards of living and, on the topic of football, decent national teams as well.

I'll answer that for you: no, they were not. It was the most well-organized World Cup in my lifetime. Saying that an absence of multiculturalism is the reason why racist chants or the threat of racist violence is expected this tournament is insulting to the countries who don't wholeheartedly embrace multiculturalism but still managed to host a respectful sporting atmosphere.

Political/societal issues like multiculturalism and immigration have no relevance to a football tournament, and it's upsetting to those who just want to watch the beautiful game to have to hear this constant drivel from the media.

[DawnRaider]

(Original post by I Kant Spall)
Were black players harassed at the '02 World Cup in two other racially homogeneous countries, Korea and Japan? These are two prosperous countries with high standards of living and, on the topic of football, decent national teams as well.

I'll answer that for you: no, they were not. It was the most well-organized World Cup in my lifetime. Saying that an absence of multiculturalism is the reason why racist chants or the threat of racist violence is expected this tournament is insulting to the countries who don't wholeheartedly embrace multiculturalism but still managed to host a respectful sporting atmosphere.

Political/societal issues like multiculturalism and immigration have no relevance to a football tournament, and it's upsetting to those who just want to watch the beautiful game to have to hear this constant drivel from the media.

well , they do have a relevance to a football tournament. as you have just siad the lack of multiculturalism has lead to a racist environment where a black guy cant go to a Euro 2012 match without risk of being beaten up. Much like it was on our football terraces 30+ years ago.

[DawnRaider]

(Original post by meenu89)
Britain had links with commonwealth countries, many of which included people of different races. They started coming here in the 60s and 70s, and we all know what was happening in Poland and Ukraine at that time.

USSR had a "commonwelth" of sorts stretching from europe to the far east - doesnt mean oriental people are automatically welcomed with open arms by ukranianan football thugs.

Karl marx was a jew, and poland fought against the naziis in WWII, does that fact make average the jewish travelling fan feel safer this summer?

Poles and ukrainains dont care about their communist past, they have (in football circles) adopted the nazii ideology of racial segregation

[pr0view]

(Original post by . . .)
I still don't know how Poland-Ukraine won and were allowed to host it.

I still don't know how SA managed to hold a world cup when its a ****ing genocide watch. Syria must be a prime contender now for the next world cup that hasn't already been allocated to a 3rd world ****hole.

[prog2djent]

Let's look at some other advanced homogenous nations OP.

Most of scandanavia, Japan, S>Korea.

Your argument is junk.

Comparing Poland and the Ukraine to the UK and those nations just doesn't work.

[I Kant Spall]

(Original post by DawnRaider)
well , they do have a relevance to a football tournament. as you have just siad the lack of multiculturalism has lead to a racist environment where a black guy cant go to a Euro 2012 match without risk of being beaten up. Much like it was on our football terraces 30+ years ago.

I did not say this and I don't believe it. The presence of racists in multicultural environments proves otherwise; just because people are subjected to and brought up in multicultural societies does not necessarily mean that they are more open-minded and tolerant.

And even if the Ukrainian and Polish fans were notoriously racist (I don't believe this--the media is making a hash of it), the way around it is not to tell them "look, your society is wrong and needs to be more politically correct like ours; embrace multiculturalism."

Don't give the racists a platform, simple as that. You can't force them to change their views in a summer. Plus, denying the tournament from these two countries because of the perceived presence of racist fans is hugely insulting to the vast majority of Polish and Ukrainian fans who aren't racist. Should England be denied the opportunity to host a football tournament because groups like the BNP are granted the freedom to exist? Absolutely not.

[pr0view]

(Original post by Corck)
True. 3000 farmers slaughtered in the last 20 years. Maybe next we will force men with domestic violence Issues to be around more women more. That'll do the trick.

Great idea I will notify the Labour Party right away.

[KCosmo]

(Original post by prog2djent)
Let's look at some other advanced homogenous nations OP.

Most of scandanavia, Japan, S>Korea.

Your argument is junk.

Comparing Poland and the Ukraine to the UK and those nations just doesn't work.

This. There's no real pattern or correlation between countries with homogenous populations and racism.

[DawnRaider]

(Original post by I Kant Spall)
I did not say this and I don't believe it. The presence of racists in multicultural environments proves otherwise; just because people are subjected to and brought up in multicultural societies does not necessarily mean that they are more open-minded and tolerant.

And even if the Ukrainian and Polish fans were notoriously racist (I don't believe this--the media is making a hash of it), the way around it is not to tell them "look, your society is wrong and needs to be more politically correct like ours; embrace multiculturalism."

Don't give the racists a platform, simple as that. You can't force them to change their views in a summer. Plus, denying the tournament from these two countries because of the perceived presence of racist fans is hugely insulting to the vast majority of Polish and Ukrainian fans who aren't racist. Should England be denied the opportunity to host a football tournament because groups like the BNP are granted the freedom to exist? Absolutely not.

Ah ok, so dont give them a platform means "all non whote fans stay at home and watch game son your tv, dont venture out at night either as there will be a white only curfew during the games.

Yes thats the best way of tackling the situation.

even better if the black players can just put their ipods on during matches so that they dont get offended by chants that are 'jsut part of the game'

[DawnRaider]

(Original post by Corck)
The OP is bothered by Poland being homogenous by the looks of it.

No just bothered, ( more than you evidently) about people being being beaten up for being non-white and having the audacity to try and watch a football match

[Corck]

(Original post by DawnRaider)
No just bothered, ( more than you evidently) about people being being beaten up for being non-white and having the audacity to try and watch a football match

Look at h immature yu sound. 'Poland be multiculturalism because I saw a fan being attacked by about 15 people on the BBC. Your an extremist. One who eats to destroy Poland for your own racist agenda.

Yet, mr race hater doesn't want any Jews in anti Semitic Muslim country's ? Your most Likely a Muslim - and an extremist.

[DawnRaider]

(Original post by Corck)
Look at h immature yu sound. 'Poland be multiculturalism because I saw a fan being attacked by about 15 people on the BBC. Your an extremist. One who eats to destroy Polad for your own racist agenda.

Yet, mr race hater doesn't want any Jews in anti Semitic Muslim country's ? Your most Likely a Muslim - and an exteamist.

Anyone else got an intelligent argument to make?

[Lord-Voldemort]

Multiculturalism =/= Multiracialism.

[Phantom Lord]

We'd be like Japan and South Korea, an aging population and a fertility rate beyond the hope of return.

[DawnRaider]

(Original post by AkaJetson)
We'd be like Japan and South Korea, an aging population and a fertility rate beyond the hope of return.

According to the UN , japan is classed as a "deeply racist society" - they jsut arnt as violent about it as the poles/ukrainans are proving to be