[xXxiKillxXx]

(Original post by Steevee)
The really scary thing is I believe this poll was conducted with University students, the kind of educated youngsters that you hope would know better

Is it really scary? Awww poor steevee

[Perseveranze]

Only a 3rd? What would 2/3's do then, die for the Queen? I don't believe in the authenticity of these polls.

Of course we will die for what we believe in, rather than follow some dictators orders for a piece of oil, or for 18k a year or whatever dumb material based reasons people fight for.

But, generally speaking, we are peaceful people. Unless we were oppressed and couldn't practice our faith, only then you might get a reaction. Otherwise everyone should just get on with their own business and live in peace.

[The Mr Z]

(Original post by doggyfizzel)
Its very difficult to do that with Islam though, the Quran is the word of God in writing, no human influence. You can't pick and choose like you can with the Bible, its not open to editing to keep it relevant. If you don't follow it to the letter, you can't be a true Muslim as you are disobeying the word of God.

Yeah, the Bible was unquestionable once too. Funny how times change.

Although Christianity really lost ground to political philosophies which left less space for its influence in society, whereas I suspect Islam will suffer more a crisis of people leaving the religion for moderatism, secularism and atheism.

(Original post by snozzle)
Tocqueville would disagree he saw reformed Christianity as integral to equality and democracy in America.

Well, this is hardly fair because I have a lot of hindsight he lacks. The separation of church and state, the fundamental secularism and levels of atheism/in-name-only religion at high levels of American society have really been fundamental in shaping its society. And then it suddenly turned quite anti-secular, but casting Christianity in the light of what it had become without it. (Not that Christianity has ever been lacking in hypocrisy)

However reformed Christianity is really just what I was describing - all the nasty bits we don't like cut out.

[Maliha Ahmed]

Stop hating! We are all humans, if there's good, there's bad also! Don't blame religion, blame human nature!!! And why do people always look at the minority, why do they ignore the majority?

[Issy123]

Who the heck took this survey?

[Tahooper]

"a quarter have little or no respect for homosexuals."

That's a much lower proportion than it would be for white Christians.

[Hanpew]

the telegraph is an islamaphobic newspaper, every other feature is about Muslims, and is about how vile everything is in Islam. but before you judge, remember that this speaks for a (probably bias) small percentage of the 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide.

No-one hardly ever condemns the US military who destroys Iraq, all in the name of "Preserving Human Rights,".

It's always Muslim's getting flak for being Muslims.

To be honest, they're almost identical in the fundamental beliefs of Christianity and Judaism.

And anyway, in Islam, killing is hardly ever justified. and Shariah law is a fairer, deterrence for society.

The Arab world is amongst some of the safest regions in the world.

So, before you start a hateful thread, think of the wider world.

oh and don't believe the press.

[4metal]

(Original post by badcheesecrispy)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...-students.html


The survey found that extreme Islamist ideology has a profound influence on a significant minority of Muslims on campuses across the country.
The findings will concern police chiefs, the security services and ministers, who are struggling with radicalisation among Muslim communities.
The YouGov poll was conducted for the Right-wing think tank, the Centre for Social Cohesion, at 12 universities, including Imperial College and Kings College London. It also found:
40 per cent support the introduction of sharia into British law for Muslims
a third back the notion of a worldwide Islamic caliphate (state) based on sharia law
40 per feel it is unacceptable for Muslim men and women to mix freely
24 per cent do not think men and women are equal in the eyes of Allah
a quarter have little or no respect for homosexuals.
Although 53 per cent said that killing in the name of religion was never justified, compared with 94 per cent of non-Muslims, 32 per cent said that it was. Of these, 4 per cent said killing could be justified to "promote or preserve" religion, while 28 per cent said it was acceptable if that religion were under attack.
There was also sympathy for the view that Muslim soldiers in the Armed Forces should be allowed to opt out of operations in Muslim countries, with 57 per cent agreeing.

EDIT- FURTHER-

The report's authors found that Islamic societies on campus, operating under the umbrella of the Federation of Student Islamic Societies, exert a strong influence on many of Britain's 90,000 Muslim students. A quarter of them belong to Islamic societies and their views are often more extreme.
While three-fifths of society members said that killing in the name of religion was acceptable, an equal number of non-member Muslims said it was never justified. The security services have identified Islamist activism at universities acts as a possible "gateway" to violent extremism. Several terrorists and sympathisers began their extremist careers on campuses.
The authors of the report, "Islam on Campus", lay much of the blame for extremism among Muslim students on the group Hizb ut-Tahrir, which seeks to build a worldwide Islamic state.
YouGov polled 600 Muslim students and 800 non-Muslim students at universities with a high number of Muslims.

How can this be? is it acceptable?

Yes it's scary. University education and inter-faith dialogues cannot stamp out islamic extremism. Just look at the educated muslim guys who bombed London a few years back. Or the muslim riots in bradford, oldham etc.

Clearly something has to be done to protect the majority from the minority.

[4metal]

(Original post by Hanpew)
the telegraph is an islamaphobic newspaper, every other feature is about Muslims, and is about how vile everything is in Islam. but before you judge, remember that this speaks for a (probably bias) small percentage of the 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide.

No-one hardly ever condemns the US military who destroys Iraq, all in the name of "Preserving Human Rights,".

It's always Muslim's getting flak for being Muslims.

To be honest, they're almost identical in the fundamental beliefs of Christianity and Judaism.

And anyway, in Islam, killing is hardly ever justified. and Shariah law is a fairer, deterrence for society.

The Arab world is amongst some of the safest regions in the world.

So, before you start a hateful thread, think of the wider world.

oh and don't believe the press.

The arab world is safe for arab muslims only.

[AverageExcellence]

Very enlightening, of all the bigottted and biased articles ive read on defaming islam this is the one that has convinced me to 'make britain bri'ish'.

[Hanpew]

(Original post by 4metal)
The arab world is safe for arab muslims only.

actually, you'll find, despite bias-ness, the arab world is affected by only 5% as much crimes as the USA. This speaks really loudly, because the most violent countries in this society, are the christian dominated ones.

[4metal]

(Original post by Hanpew)
actually, you'll find, despite bias-ness, the arab world is affected by only 5% as much crimes as the USA. This speaks really loudly, because the most violent countries in this society, are the christian dominated ones.

Yes crime is lower for sure.

And as I said, only arab muslims are secure.

[Bonged.]

(Original post by Perseveranze)
Only a 3rd? What would 2/3's do then, die for the Queen? I don't believe in the authenticity of these polls.

Of course we will die for what we believe in, rather than follow some dictators orders for a piece of oil, or for 18k a year or whatever dumb material based reasons people fight for.

But, generally speaking, we are peaceful people. Unless we were oppressed and couldn't practice our faith, only then you might get a reaction. Otherwise everyone should just get on with their own business and live in peace.

But most of the world is still non-muslim. That means theres more conquests you should be dutifully carrying out . How can there be peace whilst most of the world are ignorant kaffir infidels that you must fight and kill wherever you find them.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by The Owl of Minerva)
I have never come across any Muslim who would agree to Killing for Religion. And I live in Pakistan. Where are these lunatics you speak of?

The ones who end up being the noisiest in the UK invariably come from certain isolated pockets of Pakistani backwoods society unlike most else to be found in the more civilized areas of the country. Thanks to things like freedom of expression and all post-colonial guilt, they are given even more leeway to profess the advantages of their detestable (even by Pakistani standards) culture.

[icecoolwas]

1/3? sorry, I dont know of anyone who would agree to that, and I live in Bradford, which is fair to say; ruled by muslims.

grow up.

[Perseveranze]

(Original post by Bonged.)


But most of the world is still non-muslim. That means theres more conquests you should be dutifully carrying out . How can there be peace whilst most of the world are ignorant kaffir infidels that you must fight and kill wherever you find them.

Nah, I think we have quite a few priorities atm, ie. Palestine, Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Burma and so on. And I agree, how can there be peace when Muslims around the world are persecuted?

In the words of a great man;

---

"There is nothing in our book, the Qur’an, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone lays a hand on you, send him to the cemetery.” - Malcolm X.

---

[The Owl of Minerva]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
The ones who end up being the noisiest in the UK invariably come from certain isolated pockets of Pakistani backwoods society unlike most else to be found in the more civilized areas of the country. Thanks to things like freedom of expression and all post-colonial guilt, they are given even more leeway to profess the advantages of their detestable (even by Pakistani standards) culture.

Like you know what Pakistani culture is to comment on standards. It is not a single monolithic entity but takes on a plethora of forms. You comment on it as if only you are privy to what the true Pakistani identity and culture is, when actually it is a matter of great debate like "Britishness" is in Britain.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by The Owl of Minerva)
Like you know what Pakistani culture is to comment on standards. It is not a single monolithic entity but takes on a plethora of forms. You comment on it as if only you are privy to what the true Pakistani identity and culture is, when actually it is a matter of great debate like "Britishness" is in Britain.

You misunderstand my perspective. I'm assuming the best behaviour among the the ethical, shall we say, elites of the country's cultural diaspora, and using that as the standard by which to measure the rest of the country, find certain pockets of rural archaism to be severely lacking. These same pockets, then, that provide the largest number of fanatics and village preachers to the UK.

[The Owl of Minerva]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
You misunderstand my perspective. I'm assuming the best behaviour among the the ethical, shall we say, elites of the country's cultural diaspora, and using that as the standard by which to measure the rest of the country, find certain pockets of rural archaism to be severely lacking. These same pockets, then, that provide the largest number of fanatics and village preachers to the UK.

Ah yes, this is true.

Indeed in certain rural localities, the condition of certain minorities groups and of women especially is utterly woeful. And yes these impoverished areas are from where most of the migrants to the UK came from.

[Zim_]

(Original post by Bonged.)


But most of the world is still non-muslim. That means theres more conquests you should be dutifully carrying out . How can there be peace whilst most of the world are ignorant kaffir infidels that you must fight and kill wherever you find them.

If you don't submit, that's your choice. non of this will mater at the end of days. all these discussions of religion, class, sex -

One of us will go to Paradise, the other will go to the hell-fire. That my friend, will not be me in the pit.

If you don't want to convert then fine, but Allah has commanded us to bring Sharia to the world to help those who are misguided. Will will realize that dream whether you like it or not.