[Labqueen]

I'm not getting much sense out of Student finance as each person spoken to seems to have a different answer.

I'm 38, married with 2 children at home, my husband is in the armed forces. I am at Durham university, have done a foundation year and 1st year BSc (hons). My husband is based in Scotland and unable to get a posting closer to home so my children and myself are moving up there to be together. I have been accepted by Dundee university to continue on the same degree on their 3rd year (equal to English 2nd year). As I started university in 2010 my fees are "old" fees of £3465, however Dundee are charging £9000, student finance will only pay the £3465 and I have to fund the rest.

What I'm trying to find out is if I withdraw completely from my degree and have entry to Dundee deferred to next year, would SF finance at the £3465 still or would it then be classed as new student?

I would still have 2 years left of the degree as normal.

[Shani]

If your fees are £9,000 then SF should fund the whole fees.

I know of glitches on their website where the online calculator states they will only be entitled to the lower fees, but when SF is contacted it is corrected.

Have you actually spoken to SF or just gone off what is said on the website?

[Labqueen]

I have spoken with Student finance several times.

The first time I was told that I am protected against fee increases as I am on the 2010 cohort so should only be charged £3465 a year, however after Dundee insisted I would be charged £9000 per year, I contacted SF again and was told that because I am transfering to a Scottish university, they can charge English students what they like, but due to me being on the 2010 cohort SF will only continue to pay £3465 and I will have to fund £5535 per year.

I have 2 years left of the degree.

[Labqueen]

If I completely withdrew from the degree instead of transfering, still entered the new uni in the 3rd year, I don't know if I'd be classed as new student for fees with SF and eligible for the 9k finance. Even if SF only paid for 1 year and asked me to pay for 1, that's still a couple of grand cheaper than paying out the difference.

[Shani]

(Original post by Labqueen)
If I completely withdrew from the degree instead of transfering, still entered the new uni in the 3rd year, I don't know if I'd be classed as new student for fees with SF and eligible for the 9k finance. Even if SF only paid for 1 year and asked me to pay for 1, that's still a couple of grand cheaper than paying out the difference.

To be honest, it's the first time I've come across a situation such as yours but I can't understand why SF won't pay your full fees. If I get time today I will try to look into this further for you, but their Ts and Cs can be a bit of a minefield.

There have been many cases of students transferring courses after previously being on the old fees, and getting full funding for the new fees, the only thing that is different in your case is that you're transferring to a uni in Scotland - I'm baffled as to why that makes such a difference.

To answer your other question - yes, if you completely withdraw you should get the funding for the full fees - but then, according to what I know - you should get the funding *anyway*, so unfortunately I can't give you a definite answer with any sort of evidence to back it up right now.

Something to consider though - if you will be living in Scotland it may be that you could apply to SAAS instead of SFE, especially in the case of withdrawing completely and re-applying for year 3. I have no idea how that would work out financially for you or how SAAS "previous assistance" rules would affect you, but may be something for you to look into.


After some quick searches, all I can come up with is that:

You're either a continuing student, staying on old fees
or
You're a new student on new fees

You can't be both.

My gut reaction is that Dundee are applying the rules incorrectly and they should be charging you the old fees.

IMO, you should be appealing to them, as you have applied, and been accepted as a "continuing student" in year 3, they should be charging you continuing student fees.

As the rules are being incorrectly applied to you at present there is no guarantee that you won't still face the same problems should you withdraw and re-apply for a later year.

[Labqueen]

I'll not be eligible to apply to SAAS as I won't have lived in Scotland for 3 years.

Dundee are allowed to charge me the new fees, as Scottish universities are not bound by the same laws as England on fees. They can charge me as a new student regardless of the fact I am continuing my studies.

[Shani]

(Original post by Labqueen)
I'll not be eligible to apply to SAAS as I won't have lived in Scotland for 3 years.

Dundee are allowed to charge me the new fees, as Scottish universities are not bound by the same laws as England on fees. They can charge me as a new student regardless of the fact I am continuing my studies.

You have to have been resident in the *UK* for 3 years, and "ordinarily resident" in Scotland on the "relevant date" to qualify for help from SAAS. The "relevant date" is usually 1st August of the year in which you're studying.


What I'm trying to say is that you can't both be a "new student" AND a "continuing student" at the same time. Something has gone wrong somewhere along the lines and the correct rules and procedures aren't being applied to you.

Of course, it's up to you whether or not you want to fight it, but personally I wouldn't accept it.

[Labqueen]

Oh I know something isn't right with it as Dundee are classing me as a new student, even though they accepted me as a transfer student direct into the 3rd year of the same course, but SF class me as a continuing student. With Dundee being a Scottish university SF say they can charge English students what they like, but SF will only pay existing fees for the 2010 cohort.

SAAS say I am not eligible for help as I have not been a resident in Scotland for 3 years. I have tried to push the point that my husband is Scottish but the rule applies to me and my partners nationality bears no influence.

I have asked Dundee to look at the fees again and should hopefully hear next week.

If it comes to it and the final decision is that I do have to cover the fees myself then I will pay as the amount of money we are currently paying out to finance 2 houses, all expenses, 2 cars etc, plus the children's expenses, and most of all the emotional aspect of the children hardly seeing their dad and me not having more than 2 nights a month, when he's not in Afghan, is having an impact. The house has now gone up for sale so hopefully will provide enough profit to cover the additional fees.

Bear in mind SF don't take into account a married couple living seperately unless they are legally seperated, so we don't get additional financial support. The money I currently pay to cover child care costs for 2 children, I wouldn't have to pay up there. So all in all, moving up there would likely save us enough money to at least pay some towards any fees I was charged.

[Shani]

(Original post by Labqueen)
Oh I know something isn't right with it as Dundee are classing me as a new student, even though they accepted me as a transfer student direct into the 3rd year of the same course, but SF class me as a continuing student. With Dundee being a Scottish university SF say they can charge English students what they like, but SF will only pay existing fees for the 2010 cohort.

SAAS say I am not eligible for help as I have not been a resident in Scotland for 3 years. I have tried to push the point that my husband is Scottish but the rule applies to me and my partners nationality bears no influence.

I have asked Dundee to look at the fees again and should hopefully hear next week.

If it comes to it and the final decision is that I do have to cover the fees myself then I will pay as the amount of money we are currently paying out to finance 2 houses, all expenses, 2 cars etc, plus the children's expenses, and most of all the emotional aspect of the children hardly seeing their dad and me not having more than 2 nights a month, when he's not in Afghan, is having an impact. The house has now gone up for sale so hopefully will provide enough profit to cover the additional fees.

Bear in mind SF don't take into account a married couple living seperately unless they are legally seperated, so we don't get additional financial support. The money I currently pay to cover child care costs for 2 children, I wouldn't have to pay up there. So all in all, moving up there would likely save us enough money to at least pay some towards any fees I was charged.

I've asked someone with a little more knowledge than myself if they could take a look at your situation. I've got my fingers crossed that he'll get back to me.

SAAS have given you wrong information (as long as you will be living in Scotland on the "relevant date"). This is taken directly from their site:

http://www.saas.gov.uk/student_suppo...ligibility.htm

Am I eligible to apply for support?


To be eligible to apply for support you must meet our residence conditions as set out in The Students' Allowances (Scotland) Regulations 2007 (as amended) and be studying a course of higher education at HNC or equivalent level or above. For more information on courses that we do and do not assist, please see our course eligibility section.

To meet our residence conditions you must have been ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man for the three years immediately before the first day of the first academic year of your course (the relevant date). For the majority of students who start their course in the autumn term, the relevant date is 1 August.

You must also be ordinarily resident in Scotland on the relevant date, unless you are an English, a Northern Irish or a Welsh domiciled student taking a degree course in one of the Allied Health Professions. In this case, you must be ordinarily resident in your home country at the time you apply for your first year's support. If you are studying a nursing degree, see the nursing section for details.

As I said previously, you must have been resident anywhere within the UK for 3 years prior to the start of your course, and be "ordinarily resident in Scotland on the relevant date", which is the 1 August 2012 for courses that start between 1 August 2012 and 31 December 2012.

[Labqueen]

Thanks for that info, I'll get back onto SAAS. It may be that they gave the information to me that they did as I am still resident in England and have not yet moved to Scotland.

[Taiko]

Shani asked me to come back to assist on this one.

In my view, Dundee University are in the wrong on this. The Education (Student Support) Regulations 2011 permit a student to transfer, and remain under the old entitlements. Dundee may well try and decline your transfer, but they are competely in the wrong here, as the Scottish rules cannot override the transfer of status. It's not an SFE/SAAS issue, most certainly the university.

Paragraph 7 of the regulations is what the university need to understand. Link below

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...ulation/7/made

[Labqueen]

(Original post by Taiko)
Shani asked me to come back to assist on this one.

In my view, Dundee University are in the wrong on this. The Education (Student Support) Regulations 2011 permit a student to transfer, and remain under the old entitlements. Dundee may well try and decline your transfer, but they are competely in the wrong here, as the Scottish rules cannot override the transfer of status. It's not an SFE/SAAS issue, most certainly the university.

Paragraph 7 of the regulations is what the university need to stand. Link below

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...ulation/7/made

So if I am reading that correctly my fees of £3465 are protected by law as I am a student who is transfering to another instituition, to study the same degree I am currently studying and I am continuing onto the same year I would be had I remained at my current institution.

Thank you for that. I hope now that when contacting Dundee and SFE I may actually get somewhere as so far I have hit a brick wall with Dundee on their fee structure for English students and SFE have given different information every time I have spoken with them. I do understand that the people I talk with are call centre staff and not the actual assessors but having the full information is essential in making a decision, especially when it means the transfer could potentially be very costly to myself.

Lots of phone calls again on monday morning

[Shani]

I'm glad you've got the information you will need to proceed. The regulations are difficult to interpret at the best of times, so I'd like to say a big thank you to taiko for his input here

[Labqueen]

You both have been really helpful and I do appreciate a great deal.

Hopefully now I may be able to get this sorted and have my fees remain on the 2010 cohort. If so then any money made from selling my house here can go in the bank and not onto paying tuition fees, though in reality the kids would likely get their grubby little hands all over it

[Taiko]

If there's any issues, ask Shani to get in touch with me. I no longer read these forums. Will occasionally show my head if summoned.

[Labqueen]

I used the information given here when speaking with Dundee again and have now been informed the director in admissions is looking at my file and I should hear from them shortly. Hopefully good news to come

Again many thanks to Shani and Taiko

[ebowey]

I'm transfering from Stirling University to Durham and I am having to pay the 9,000 fee rise. I am having to use my maintenance loan to pay for 2/3 of my fees, and I am working to save up the rest.

I would contact the SF to explain the situation, and explain that you are not a transfer student, but a new student where you should be given finance for the entire fee cost.

It gets tricky going from a English Uni to a Scottish one, I would find out from the University about bursaries avaliable.

Good Luck