[WheresWally]

Lulz Op is a PHAGGOT

[ShredMaster]

(Original post by Lord-Voldemort)
Again, what recent, impartial scientific evidence do you have to backup this claim?

Go get killed by Harry Potter. There is a reason why everyone is ignoring you. Anyone with a basic knowledge of the the nervous system within mammals accepts that slitting the throat of an animal and cutting its nerve endings is a less painful form of death. Better than what most companies do anyway (throwing animals in meat-grinders alive - pretty disgusting if you ask me). I don't mean to be patronising, but maybe you should look this matter up yourself.

[Giggy88]

Don't even think this is worth dicussing.. Someone should give OP halal and non halaal chicken and tell him to differentiate.

[Fahim711]

(Original post by alex5455)
utter rubbish, ill cut your throat shall i see if you die instantly?

would like you to try mate, don't think you'd get to far with it though, good luck

like i said I've seen it with my own eyes and the lamb dies instantly when its trout and jugular vein is cut

[Brutal Honesty]

(Original post by Midnight-Sky-Blue)
I rather resent the tone of this post. It is a very important thing to me, which is why I'm concerned about this topic at hand. The incident with the sausage occurred when I was much younger, and while I was a Hindu, I don't believe that a child can fully be responsible for such things like that, especially as I don't believe that children can really fully understand a religion back then. I know that at that time, I didn't even understand why I didn't eat beef as I was just a child. Now that I fully understand that, I do make sure if something has beef in it or not as now that I understand the reasoning, I feel like I'm a proper Hindu and you can't properly follow a religion until you understand it. I'm just saying, IF I were to forget to ask (and it can happen. Sometimes I may have other things on my mind which could be more important, like an ill family member or something), it can be annoying.

My point is just that while they don't need to specify every single little ingredient, they should point out the main issues that come up. If they can easily say that something is halal, why can't they do the opposite and say when it isn't? If they can easily say if something is vegetarian, don't they also say when it's non-vegetarian? Of course they do. It's not really that big of a deal. All they have to do is write somewhere to say if something is halal as they already do with most halal things. I just have the issue when they don't bother to tell you, but it's actually halal. It shouldn't be up to me to ask about every food product and whether it's this or that, IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, and it is as I know plenty of people who refuse to eat Halal meat. It makes sense for them to not bother labeling about minor things, like if something has celery or not for people allergic to it as very few people are. In that case, of course they should ask about it themselves. I know that if I was allergic to celery, I'd ask about it. But if it's a matter or meat either being halal or not and people want to know, why can't they just tell us? It's not a massive deal to do and from my experience and the experience of those around me, I put it on par as being as important as knowing if an item of food has meat in it or not.

The tone is actually frustration that you fail to take responsibility for your own eating habits. If you were a child when sausage-gate happened then it's up to your parents to ensure you don't eat beef if they were raising you as a Hindu - not yours or every single restaurant/diner in the UK. If you forget then I'm sure it will be forgiven in your religion, again, it's not up to restaurants in the UK to remind you of your religious obligations. I suggest you find a way of remembering, my Muslim/Hindu/vegetarian friends don't seem to have a problem with it - in fact it's the first thing on their mind when they're eating out.

Presumably it'd be very tedious for restaurants to label every single non-halal food as 'not halal' which is why they don't do it. It'd be much like labelling food which isn't vegan as 'not vegan'. Many businesses actually don't know whether the product they're buying is halal/vegan/kosher or not, they'll simply purchase the product and if it is halal/vegan/kosher so be it, they haven't specifically bought it for that reason it just so happens it is. If it bothers you so much you should take responsibility and look up this stuff on your own. When I go to a restaurant, the only thing that tends to be labelled on the menu is whether the dish is vegetarian or not, everything else: halal, kosher, vegan, gluten-free, free-range, caged etc. isn't so if you have those preferences you'll need to work it out for yourself. I don't see why it's the responsibility of every eating establishment in Britain to remind you of your dietary preferences.

[fudgesundae]

(Original post by Midnight-Sky-Blue)
From when I once researched this, I found many articles online saying that the halal method was less painful and many other articles saying that other modern methods are less painful. Tbh, until we're in the situation of the animal, we can't really know and many people will claim one way over another, so I think it's up to the individual to decide what it the least painful method as we can't know, what with all of the disputing studies.

Having spoken to professional people in this particular area and using my own knowledge, I believe that the halal killing method is unnecessarily painful and there are various better methods, so I will not tolerate eating meat which has been more painfully killed. This is just my opinion though.

Yep agree with your first paragraph, it was tough to find anything truly conclusive.

Just wondering, shouldn't people worry more about how the animal is treated during its life than how it is slaughtered. Some of the conditions these animals are kept in are truly awful and killing them humanely really does not make the whole process any better.

[For The Love Of Giraffe]

(Original post by Brutal Honesty)
The tone is actually frustration that you fail to take responsibility for your own eating habits. If you were a child when sausage-gate happened then it's up to your parents to ensure you don't eat beef if they were raising you as a Hindu - not yours or every single restaurant/diner in the UK. If you forget then I'm sure it will be forgiven in your religion, again, it's not up to restaurants in the UK to remind you of your religious obligations. I suggest you find a way of remembering, my Muslim/Hindu/vegetarian friends don't seem to have a problem with it - in fact it's the first thing on their mind when they're eating out.

Presumably it'd be very tedious for restaurants to label every single non-halal food as 'not halal' which is why they don't do it. It'd be much like labelling food which isn't vegan as 'not vegan'. Many businesses actually don't know whether the product they're buying is halal/vegan/kosher or not, they'll simply purchase the product and if it is halal/vegan/kosher so be it, they haven't specifically bought it for that reason it just so happens it is. If it bothers you so much you should take responsibility and look up this stuff on your own. When I go to a restaurant, the only thing that tends to be labelled on the menu is whether the dish is vegetarian or not, everything else: halal, kosher, vegan, gluten-free, free-range, caged etc. isn't so if you have those preferences you'll need to work it out for yourself. I don't see why it's the responsibility of every eating establishment in Britain to remind you of your dietary preferences.

Oh, you seem to misunderstand me - I never have blamed anyone for me having consumed beef. I didn't mean to, so I don't feel guilty for it. It's not ideal, but never would I blame someone for it. I just do think that in cases like that, where it's known that a lot of people don't eat a certain meat, it would be good for them to mention it. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's common knowledge that many people don't eat pork as it's against their religion - that is another meat which they should label if it is in food items. It won't take that much effort to do.

And my God, do you not understand me? Yes, I understand that it is my responsibility, I am just simply saying that it makes perfect sense to label out things that affect a vast amount of people and while it may be a little bit of a hassle, it would then be very useful for many and wouldn't be so difficult to deal with once it has been done. Also, people should know what kind of meat they are buying - that's completely absurd if they don't and that should be another thing that is looked at - people need to know what they're selling to their customers. Furthermore, have you ever actually asked a waiter about several different dishes? I have and not only did it frustrate the waiter, he didn't even seem to know what was in the dishes and then had to spend a while talking to the chef, which delayed service for the table next to us. The chef didn't even know about the particular meal that I wanted and then proceeded to have to find the packaging of some food, further delaying our order. Is it fair that because I wanted to eat something nice, I had to delay service for my friends and other people in the restaurant? No, it wasn't. But is it fair that I can't order what I want to because I'm not sure about what's in it? No again. And I'm sure they would have to deal with this a lot, so why not just write it on the menu if it's regarding an issue that many people will be concerned about? People should know what they're selling, so it would be as simple as re-printing menus with a few symbols on it and most restaurants re-print menus every few months, so it really is not that difficult.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing now. My point was that it would simply be wise to label food better and if they can label to say if something is halal, why can't they label it otherwise, or there should be a rule saying that they DEFINITELY should label it if it is halal and if it's not labeled, we know that it is not. What is so difficult about that idea? It makes sense to label any important foods which could cause many people issues.

[For The Love Of Giraffe]

(Original post by fudgesundae)
Yep agree with your first paragraph, it was tough to find anything truly conclusive.

Just wondering, shouldn't people worry more about how the animal is treated during its life than how it is slaughtered. Some of the conditions these animals are kept in are truly awful and killing them humanely really does not make the whole process any better.

Yeah, I agree - I am definitely in favour of protecting animals during their life and during their experience with death. This is why I try to buy free range meat when it's available. But I guess trying to kill them in the most humane way possible is the first step to trying to improve their state of living and hopefully as this topic becomes more widely talked about, changes will be made.

[Aethra]

(Original post by Saleha)
Yeah exactly.. so what's the problem? You said you can taste the difference, but you clearly can't and even if you can somehow it can't be that much of a difference if you weren't able to tell before you found out KFC was halal
Don't make up rubbish to defend a stupid point :s You'd be respected much more if you just explicitly said 'I'VE RUN OUT OF RUBBISH TO SAY ABOUT MUSLIMS, BUT HERE'S POINTLESS THREAD TO JUST REMIND THEM HOW MUCH I HATE THEM' because at least you're truthful that way

I don't want to eat animals that have been slaughtered by having their throats cut while a prayer to Allah is recited over them. Got it?

[For The Love Of Giraffe]

(Original post by Giggy88)
Don't even think this is worth dicussing.. Someone should give OP halal and non halaal chicken and tell him to differentiate.

It's not a matter about taste, it's a matter or trying to make sure animals are treated in the best way possible. If more people just ate meat from animals killed in the most humane ways, then that will slowly become the only practice in use. It's very important that we try to cause the least harm if we can because there is no need for extra pain - that's just barbaric to cause more pain if it can be avoided.

[Aethra]

(Original post by Midnight-Sky-Blue)
It's not a matter about taste, it's a matter or trying to make sure animals are treated in the best way possible. If more people just ate meat from animals killed in the most humane ways, then that will slowly become the only practice in use. It's very important that we try to cause the least harm if we can because there is no need for extra pain - that's just barbaric to cause more pain if it can be avoided.

The sad thing is most people don't even know they're eating halal meat. We need to raise awareness.

[yusra121]

(Original post by Aethra)
I don't want to eat animals that have been slaughtered by having their throats cut while a prayer to Allah is recited over them. Got it?

Well the best solution is to avoid halal meat if your so against it so much and if you cant avoid it don't eat it. Its simple. Furthermore what is this thread going to accomplish it not going to eliminate halal meat so live with it and get on with your life.

[Aethra]

(Original post by yusra121)
Well the best solution is to avoid halal meat if your so against it so much and if you cant avoid it don't eat it. Its simple. Furthermore what is this thread going to accomplish it not going to eliminate halal meat so live with it and get on with your life.

I would avoid it if I knew it was halal. That's the whole point of the thread, we're not being told.

[Brutal Honesty]

(Original post by Midnight-Sky-Blue)
Oh, you seem to misunderstand me - I never have blamed anyone for me having consumed beef. I didn't mean to, so I don't feel guilty for it. It's not ideal, but never would I blame someone for it. I just do think that in cases like that, where it's known that a lot of people don't eat a certain meat, it would be good for them to mention it. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's common knowledge that many people don't eat pork as it's against their religion - that is another meat which they should label if it is in food items. It won't take that much effort to do.

And my God, do you not understand me? Yes, I understand that it is my responsibility, I am just simply saying that it makes perfect sense to label out things that affect a vast amount of people and while it may be a little bit of a hassle, it would then be very useful for many and wouldn't be so difficult to deal with once it has been done. Also, people should know what kind of meat they are buying - that's completely absurd if they don't and that should be another thing that is looked at - people need to know what they're selling to their customers. Furthermore, have you ever actually asked a waiter about several different dishes? I have and not only did it frustrate the waiter, he didn't even seem to know what was in the dishes and then had to spend a while talking to the chef, which delayed service for the table next to us. The chef didn't even know about the particular meal that I wanted and then proceeded to have to find the packaging of some food, further delaying our order. Is it fair that because I wanted to eat something nice, I had to delay service for my friends and other people in the restaurant? No, it wasn't. But is it fair that I can't order what I want to because I'm not sure about what's in it? No again. And I'm sure they would have to deal with this a lot, so why not just write it on the menu if it's regarding an issue that many people will be concerned about? People should know what they're selling, so it would be as simple as re-printing menus with a few symbols on it and most restaurants re-print menus every few months, so it really is not that difficult.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing now. My point was that it would simply be wise to label food better and if they can label to say if something is halal, why can't they label it otherwise, or there should be a rule saying that they DEFINITELY should label it if it is halal and if it's not labeled, we know that it is not. What is so difficult about that idea? It makes sense to label any important foods which could cause many people issues.

My position is quite simple, I know many people who have similar dietary requirements to you, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, vegetarians, vegans, pescetarians, people on diets etc. and they manage to get on fine without hassle despite those requirements. Muslims will only order dishes which are clearly marked 'vegetarian' on the menu so why can't you do the same? It seems you're being very childish and want everyone else (all businesses in the UK) to cater to your religious requirements rather than you take personal responsibility and ensure you avoid eating beef/halal meat. My advice to you would be to only order vegetarian dishes when eating in an unfamiliar place or only pork dishes (which can't be halal anyway). It doesn't seem to complicated, the Muslims I know only eat vegetarian outside unless they're sure the food is halal so why can't you do the same? Why does the whole world need to change their labelling policy and go to great lengths to find out their food origins because you can't be bothered? It's not compulsory to eat meat in restaurants you know? If you care about your religion enough (rather than what your friends think) you'd ensure it wouldn't happen. I don't see why businesses should have to pay for new menus and symbols to specifically cater for you.

[For The Love Of Giraffe]

(Original post by Brutal Honesty)
My position is quite simple, I know many people who have similar dietary requirements to you, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, vegetarians, vegans, pescetarians, people on diets etc. and they manage to get on fine without hassle despite those requirements. Muslims will only order dishes which are clearly marked 'vegetarian' on the menu so why can't you do the same? It seems you're being very childish and want everyone else (all businesses in the UK) to cater to your religious requirements rather than you take personal responsibility and ensure you avoid eating beef/halal meat. My advice to you would be to only order vegetarian dishes when eating in an unfamiliar place or only pork dishes (which can't be halal anyway). It doesn't seem to complicated, the Muslims I know only eat vegetarian outside unless they're sure the food is halal so why can't you do the same? Why does the whole world need to change their labelling policy and go to great lengths to find out their food origins because you can't be bothered? It's not compulsory to eat meat in restaurants you know? If you care about your religion enough (rather than what your friends think) you'd ensure it wouldn't happen. I don't see why businesses should have to pay for new menus and symbols to specifically cater for you.

You honestly just don't seem to understand me, but instead you're reading what you want to and then trying to make out like I'm being some selfish child or that I'm blaming other people or trying to get other people to do things my way.

What I am suggesting is not just for my benefit - it is just a system which I think should be in place to benefit more people. Surely it's better for businesses if they labeled things better and then got more people paying for the more expensive meat dishes? I have friends who are so strict about what they eat that they will not eat at restaurants because they can't be sure what's in the food - so businesses are losing money and they miss out on something which shouldn't be such a massive problem.

I'm not suggesting this JUST for me and so that I have an easier life. If I have to spend the rest of my life asking to find out if my meat has been horribly killed, I'll do it, I just think that it makes PERFECT SENSE to notify people about what they're eating if people might want to know. It's not rocket science. You just stick a little symbol next to an item of food if it contains something that many people may have reasons to not want to eat. That way people will feel comfortable eating at that food establishment, so more money for the business and they don't have to just eat something they don't really like out of fear. I can't eat cheese and pretty much anything without meat contains it, so should I just sit at home and not go to a work function meal? Should I never go to a family dinner? It's a social convention and should be a simple process. But just because I'm saying this, I'm not saying that everyone needs to change to make me happy. I'm saying that surely it's a sensible idea that wouldn't cause that much hassle (as people should know what they're selling) and may benefit a lot of people. If they don't do it, that's fine - I'm not going to stamp my feet and throw a tantrum like you seem to think. It's just a suggestion that I think would be a good idea.

[Brutal Honesty]

(Original post by Midnight-Sky-Blue)
You honestly just don't seem to understand me, but instead you're reading what you want to and then trying to make out like I'm being some selfish child or that I'm blaming other people or trying to get other people to do things my way.

What I am suggesting is not just for my benefit - it is just a system which I think should be in place to benefit more people. Surely it's better for businesses if they labeled things better and then got more people paying for the more expensive meat dishes? I have friends who are so strict about what they eat that they will not eat at restaurants because they can't be sure what's in the food - so businesses are losing money and they miss out on something which shouldn't be such a massive problem.

I'm not suggesting this JUST for me and so that I have an easier life. If I have to spend the rest of my life asking to find out if my meat has been horribly killed, I'll do it, I just think that it makes PERFECT SENSE to notify people about what they're eating if people might want to know. It's not rocket science. You just stick a little symbol next to an item of food if it contains something that many people may have reasons to not want to eat. That way people will feel comfortable eating at that food establishment, so more money for the business and they don't have to just eat something they don't really like out of fear. I can't eat cheese and pretty much anything without meat contains it, so should I just sit at home and not go to a work function meal? Should I never go to a family dinner? It's a social convention and should be a simple process. But just because I'm saying this, I'm not saying that everyone needs to change to make me happy. I'm saying that surely it's a sensible idea that wouldn't cause that much hassle (as people should know what they're selling) and may benefit a lot of people. If they don't do it, that's fine - I'm not going to stamp my feet and throw a tantrum like you seem to think. It's just a suggestion that I think would be a good idea.

There is no difference in terms of animal cruelty during slaughter because halal meat sold commercially in the UK needs to be stunned anyway. If you've eaten halal meat in a restaurant it's been stunned, the only difference is that the butcher would have been a Muslim and the animal would have been raised free range and away from pigs. Most restaurants can't be bothered to label this and they only do it if they're specifically looking to get Muslim customers to buy their meat. Otherwise it's not worth the hassle. If it were more profitable for them they'd have done it by now. If you're so concerned only order vegetarian dishes at restaurants, it's what my friends do.

[For The Love Of Giraffe]

(Original post by Brutal Honesty)
There is no difference in terms of animal cruelty during slaughter because halal meat sold commercially in the UK needs to be stunned anyway. If you've eaten halal meat in a restaurant it's been stunned, the only difference is that the butcher would have been a Muslim and the animal would have been raised free range and away from pigs. Most restaurants can't be bothered to label this and they only do it if they're specifically looking to get Muslim customers to buy their meat. Otherwise it's not worth the hassle. If it were more profitable for them they'd have done it by now. If you're so concerned only order vegetarian dishes at restaurants, it's what my friends do.

For the love of God, I have not said this is about me - I have merely used my experiences as an example. I believe this idea is beneficial to many and that is something you have not been able to dispute. While some people are happy without this labeling, I'm sure they cannot deny that it would be helpful and hardly much of a hassle for the business. While it may not be 'worth the hassle' to you, it is not something that requires much time at all and many people like myself would appreciate it. Yes, we can order vegetarian dishes, but I won't deny that I would prefer not to have to when it would cause little stress to the supplier of that meal.

I do not believe Halal meat has been killed as humanely (whether you believe otherwise is your opinion), but my point was regarding other issues as well, such as other common meats which people may not eat and labeling could be helpful in those cases.

I'm not going to reply after this. You fail to comprehend the simplest idea that this is a system which I am suggesting that could benefit people. Why not enforce it if people may enjoy it and people wouldn't have to put much effort into it? Yes, there are alternatives and we can all just order other things, but there's no denying that it wouldn't be appreciated and you just seem to now be arguing for the sake of it, so I can't be bothered with this anymore. I've tried to give you my personal view, that of my friends, that of a business and yet you just bring it back to what I should be doing - this isn't about me, it's about helping many people out there and was just a suggestion. This is why they list ingredients on food packaging - while you may see it as pointless hassle, but people appreciate knowing for sure what they can and cannot eat and it's the same in a restaurant.

[sucess]

why why, i hate this

[Lord-Voldemort]

(Original post by ShredMaster)
Go get killed by Harry Potter.

So, you begin your counter-argument with a playground insult calling for my death (don't pretend it was in the context of me being the fictional Lord Voldemort - I reckon you genuinely meant it). Because it is indeed a capital offence to disagree with your religious sensibilities, right?

There is a reason why everyone is ignoring you.

No-one I have replied to has intentionally ignored me (unless they were incapable of providing a credible counter-argument). You are spouting lies.

Anyone with a basic knowledge of the the nervous system within mammals accepts that slitting the throat of an animal and cutting its nerve endings is a less painful form of death.

Again, I want recent, impartial scientific evidence (that hasn't been rebuked by newer scientific evidence) to reinforce your 'basic knowledge' theory. Because, as far as I am aware - the most up to date scientific evidence rebukes your theory, as has been posted in this thread.

Better than what most companies do anyway (throwing animals in meat-grinders alive - pretty disgusting if you ask me). I don't mean to be patronising, but maybe you should look this matter up yourself.

Oh please, what companies are legally allowed to throw animals into meat-grinders alive?

And, you're the one making the grandiose 'basic knowledge' claims - the onus is therefore on you to support it with credible scientific evidence.

[Einsteinius]

(Original post by Aethra)
How can we do something about this, because I find it disgusting. A very large proportion of the food we buy has halal meat in it, completely unlabelled. Most New Zealand lamb sold in the UK is now, apparently, halal, and so is KFC. Many other outlets are following suit, without even telling us. Surely, if it's ok to tell customers that something is definitely halal, we should also be informed when something definitely isn't, because I for one don't want to eat anything that's been deliberately slaughtered in the cruellest way imaginable by letting it bleed to death while still conscious.

You talk absolute ****