[Dirac Delta Function]

"There are only two just and fair outcomes of this trial - acquittal or capital punishment. I consider 21 years of prison as a pathetic punishment."
-Breivik.

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by Roaroaroar)
http://news.yahoo.com/prison-hire-pe...130652699.html

I know Norway has always had a liberal prison system but I can't believe they're willing to spend more money on a guy that killed countless of children. It truly shows how great of a nation they really are. They're like epitome of Jesus with their kindness and compassion even towards the most sick prisoners.

Inb4 right-wingers can't comprehend such acts of compassion and start chanting for death penalty/total isolation.

Compassion? Only the families of the vicitims have the right to have compassion.

This is the thing about you leftards - you buy compassion at the expense of others, just like you assume socialised costs, at the expense of others.

When you have a loved one murdered, then you earn the right to be compassionate, you don't have the right to be compassionate on behalf of someone else.

What a disgusting stance to take - to present yourselves as enlightened when it was not you who was the victim of this crime.

[Roaroaroar]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
Compassion? Only the families of the vicitims have the right to have compassion.

This is the thing about you leftards - you buy compassion at the expense of others, just like you assume socialised costs, at the expense of others.

When you have a loved one murdered, then you earn the right to be compassionate, you don't have the right to be compassionate on behalf of someone else.

What a disgusting stance to take - to present yourselves as enlightened when it was not you who was the victim of this crime.

Provide a logical reason to take their feelings into consideration. Feelings of victims of victims family are irrelevant. This is why cases can go ahead even after a victim refuses to press charges or forgives. There's no reason to factor it in. It's merely revenge and there's no need for revenge. Our legal system should revolve around rehabilitation.

[Dirac Delta Function]

(Original post by Roaroaroar)
Provide a logical reason to take their feelings into consideration. Feelings of victims of victims family are irrelevant. This is why cases can go ahead even after a victim refuses to press charges or forgives. There's no reason to factor it in. It's merely revenge and there's no need for revenge. Our legal system should revolve around rehabilitation.

You've missed the point. This is not about whether or not we should take anyone's feelings into consideration when considering legal matters, it's your claim to being compassionate - you have no right to make the claim because nothing was taken away from you. If you have not been hurt, your "compassion" is meaningless.

Besides, there is no more a logical reason to act based on compassion than there is to act on revenge.

[Einheri]

(Original post by mmmpie)
The Norwegian criminal justice system emphasises rehabilitation. I doubt they expect to get very far with Breivik, but at least they have the strength of principle to not bung him in a cell and leave him to rot in isolation.

Rehabilitation doesn't work. A bullet in the brain does.

[stifa]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
"There are only two just and fair outcomes of this trial - acquittal or capital punishment. I consider 21 years of prison as a pathetic punishment."
-Breivik.

He do obviously not know very much about the Norwegian penal system. (Protip: they can add 5 years over and over again after the sentence is over if he is deemed unfit for release.)

(Original post by Einheri)
Rehabilitation doesn't work. A bullet in the brain does.

The fact that far less people returns to prison in Norway than anywhere else should speak for itself, though. We're past the stage of constant craving for vengeance; we aren't savages anymore.

[xXxiKillxXx]

(Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
why, so he can give tips to Salafis?

Nope, so he can be given a punishment that suits. Plus, Al-Qaeda has denounced him so really doubt they want tips of him..

[TheHansa]

(Original post by lucaf)
no be fair, their reasoning there is actually pretty sound. he can't have normal associations, but they can't just leave him on his own forever either.

people accuse Norway of having too soft a prison system, but from what I have read they have a far lower rate of repeat offenses. you can't argue with results, if criminals are less likely to commit a crime after leaving jail their system is working. rehabilitation is better than punishment, although Breivik is beyond rehabilitation

The best way to stop him doing it again would be to ensure he doesn't do anything again if you get what I mean.


Saudi Arabia also has low crime rates despite higher poverty than both Norway and the UK but the liberals don't bang on about that one.

[TheHansa]

(Original post by Roaroaroar)
Provide a logical reason to take their feelings into consideration. Feelings of victims of victims family are irrelevant. This is why cases can go ahead even after a victim refuses to press charges or forgives. There's no reason to factor it in. It's merely revenge and there's no need for revenge. Our legal system should revolve around rehabilitation.

Seeing as you think you're so logical, provide a logical reason not to execute him.

He's already costing loads so keeping him alive continues to do damage and its not about revenge it's that killing him would mean he'll never ever do something like this again, rehabilitation fails even in Norway one out of every five who go through their apparently fantastic legal system commint more crime afterwards, that's absolutely crap.

[Electronica]

(Original post by TheHansa)
The best way to stop him doing it again would be to ensure he doesn't do anything again if you get what I mean.


Saudi Arabia also has low crime rates despite higher poverty than both Norway and the UK but the liberals don't bang on about that one.

Saudi Arabia also treat women like property. Your argument is invalid.

Good on the Norwegians for resisting being as backwards as he is. The reason for these attacks was probably because of his isolation and being out of touch. People have the right to have a life in prison, albeit a very humble one with no eccentricities.

[TheHansa]

(Original post by Electronica)
Saudi Arabia also treat women like property. Your argument is invalid.

Good on the Norwegians for resisting being as backwards as he is. The reason for these attacks was probably because of his isolation and being out of touch. People have the right to have a life in prison, albeit a very humble one with no eccentricities.

What da***???????

Saudi crime rates and women's rights? What do they even have to do with each other?




It's not backwards to kill a mass murderer who permanently took away the rights of almost 100 children with an assault rifle; give men one reason without resorting to it's not part of Norway's law why he should not die.

[Electronica]

(Original post by TheHansa)
What da***???????

Womens rights and Saudis' low crime rates are two separate things




It's not backwards to kill a mass murderer who permanently took away the rights of almost 100 children with an assault rifle; give men one reason without resorting to it's not part of Norway's law why he should not die.

I'm just saying that you can't extrapolate statistics from a country which is inherently backwards.

He should not be killed because that would give him and like minded people gratification - it's also what he wants to happen. If you killed him then that would be 101 people dead because of a tragic incident. Also, in my opinion, people should not be forced to obey the law on pain of death. If people do not accept the law for what it is then they should not be judged by it, maybe modern justice isn't the correct way to do things. The best thing that you can do is imprisonment, to rehabilitate the individual and protect the public. Everyone deserves at least a chance at life, and we cannot reject his ideals just because we don't agree with them, we can only protect ourselves from those ideals. The world I live in is a free thinking one. Cutting people up because they do not agree with the system they were forcibly born into, is childish.

[Roaroaroar]

(Original post by TheHansa)
Seeing as you think you're so logical, provide a logical reason not to execute him.

He's already costing loads so keeping him alive continues to do damage and its not about revenge it's that killing him would mean he'll never ever do something like this again, rehabilitation fails even in Norway one out of every five who go through their apparently fantastic legal system commint more crime afterwards, that's absolutely crap.

Cost more. USA cares less about human rights than Norway so imagine how much it would cost Norway to execute him. Plus, the findings aren't conclusive yet so we have to wait to see if it was caused by some underlining medical conditions because if it was then that gives more a justification to not execute him.

Also, capital punishment although will provide a 100% rehabilitation rate it won't provide a 100% rate of only guilty being executed.

[TheHansa]

(Original post by Electronica)
I'm just saying that you can't extrapolate statistics from a country which is inherently backwards.

He should not be killed because that would give him and like minded people gratification - it's also what he wants to happen. If you killed him then that would be 101 people dead because of a tragic incident. Also, in my opinion, people should not be forced to obey the law on pain of death. If people do not accept the law for what it is then they should not be judged by it, maybe modern justice isn't the correct way to do things. The best thing that you can do is imprisonment, to rehabilitate the individual and protect the public. Everyone deserves at least a chance at life, and we cannot reject his ideals just because we don't agree with them, we can only protect ourselves from those ideals. The world I live in is a free thinking one. Cutting people up because they do not agree with the system they were forcibly born into, is childish.

If it was so backwards the crime should be through the roof.

If he doesn't like the system he should move out rather than permanently removing others.

(Original post by Roaroaroar)
Cost more. USA cares less about human rights than Norway so imagine how much it would cost Norway to execute him. Plus, the findings aren't conclusive yet so we have to wait to see if it was caused by some underlining medical conditions because if it was then that gives more a justification to not execute him.

Also, capital punishment although will provide a 100% rehabilitation rate it won't provide a 100% rate of only guilty being executed.

The way USA does things is only so rich lawyers can make money from the government by constantly retrailing them even if there is no new evidence, the medical condition changes nothing because we all answer to our own desires and impulses and we could probably catergorise people who rape and kill as having a medical condition which inhibits their empathy or such but killing them rather than being a punishment is just a way of taking bad rubbish out

[Roaroaroar]

(Original post by TheHansa)
If it was so backwards the crime should be through the roof.

Nah. If we told everyone who commits a crime they'll have their arms and legs chopped off, how many will do it? Not many right. However, surely you can see that's still backwards?

[TheHansa]

(Original post by Roaroaroar)
Nah. If we told everyone who commits a crime they'll have their arms and legs chopped off, how many will do it? Not many right. However, surely you can see that's still backwards?

No, not really, because the suffering of the innocent will has been drastically brought down at the expense only of those who cause suffering, in my mind the fact they cause suffering means that their wellbeing is of less importance that those who cause no suffering.

[Electronica]

(Original post by TheHansa)
If it was so backwards the crime should be through the roof.

No. No it shouldn't.

(Original post by TheHansa)
If he doesn't like the system he should move out rather than permanently removing others.

And kill people in another country? It's tragic that this incident happened, but it's inevitable that these incidents will always occur while there are extremist thinkers. We can be thankful that he is now removed from society, and cannot harm anyone else other than himself. Capital punishment is never necessary in the culture we live in, so therefore should never be used. Nobody needs to die.

[TheHansa]

(Original post by Electronica)
No. No it shouldn't.

If a culture is backward you would expect people to value life less, but Saudi Arabians have lower murder rates that the Brits.

(Original post by Electronica)
And kill people in another country? It's tragic that this incident happened, but it's inevitable that these incidents will always occur while there are extremist thinkers. We can be thankful that he is now removed from society, and cannot harm anyone else other than himself. Capital punishment is never necessary in the culture we live in, so therefore should never be used. Nobody needs to die.

He can, he could pretend to be cured as many, many paedophiles do before going on to reoffend, keeping him alive wastes money with could go to the poor, sick or elderly.

[Manitude]

I can see why they'd do this. If he's put in the general prison population then he'll be torn to shreds by the other inmates - they can't do this as they know it's almost certainly equivalent to the death penalty. And then it's in the Norwegian legislation that long term solitary confinement is not allowed. I'm assuming that he is not the first such prisoner to get this kind of treatment, just the most high profile.

[Electronica]

(Original post by TheHansa)
If a culture is backward you would expect people to value life less, but Saudi Arabians have lower murder rates that the Brits.

I count the death penalty as murder, so do the statistics still add up?

(Original post by TheHansa)
He can, he could pretend to be cured as many, many paedophiles do before going on to reoffend, keeping him alive wastes money with could go to the poor, sick or elderly.

If he is released I'm pretty sure that the authorities would still hold him under a restricted lifestyle. Europe wastes money, state sectioned marriage wastes money, bailing out the banking system wastes money. I would sooner cut off those things than I would someone's basic right to live.