[MrHayden]

Is it me, or are the mods censoring TSR more and more? I've only been on six months or so, but it feels like there's been a notable increase in thread/post removal in just the last few weeks!
It is great that a lot of obvious trolls just get quietly removed and silenced, but these days they seem to be cutting out loads of stuff from fairly sensible and interesting debates. Why would they be doing this? And can they please stop it!

[Champagne Supernova]

More than likely off-topic things getting removed to be honest. There's no great conspiracy on TSR. It's probably more noticable in the forums you visit (you used the word debate, I'm assuming you like the current affairs section of the site?) as things do tend to go more off-topic/people trolling others there.

[Mad Vlad]

(Original post by MrHayden)
Is it me, or are the mods censoring TSR more and more? I've only been on six months or so, but it feels like there's been a notable increase in thread/post removal in just the last few weeks!
It is great that a lot of obvious trolls just get quietly removed and silenced, but these days they seem to be cutting out loads of stuff from fairly sensible and interesting debates. Why would they be doing this? And can they please stop it!

It's not always practical to prune off just the cruft, particularly in discussions that went off topic hours before it was reported. Sometimes, the only practical solution from the moderation team's perspective is to burn all the posts that relate to the crufty posts and this means that perfectly valid content that is in response to bad posts gets caught up in the crossfire - especially if the valid post quotes the bad post.

The way you can prevent this from happening is religiously reporting rule-breaking posts as soon as you see them and to not respond at all to them.

[ak137]

(Original post by MrHayden)
Is it me, or are the mods censoring TSR more and more? I've only been on six months or so, but it feels like there's been a notable increase in thread/post removal in just the last few weeks!
It is great that a lot of obvious trolls just get quietly removed and silenced, but these days they seem to be cutting out loads of stuff from fairly sensible and interesting debates. Why would they be doing this? And can they please stop it!

I suppose TSR is like DPRK in that sense.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by MrHayden)
Is it me, or are the mods censoring TSR more and more? I've only been on six months or so, but it feels like there's been a notable increase in thread/post removal in just the last few weeks!
It is great that a lot of obvious trolls just get quietly removed and silenced, but these days they seem to be cutting out loads of stuff from fairly sensible and interesting debates. Why would they be doing this? And can they please stop it!

I've noticed the same thing mate. Posted about it in AAM yesterday.

There needs to be more thought process behind it than "this thread has been going on for too long *lock*" or "this thread is a sensitive topic *delete*" which is how it comes across. People should be free to speak their minds within reason.

Agree with your comment on trolls too.

[PSxxx]

One improvement that could go down really well would be to have a trial for potential bannings, a random pick of say 21 active posters should vote and judge on it.

Democratic, fairish and removes criticism of moderator agenda and bias, easy to implement with today's tech.

[Mad Vlad]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
I've noticed the same thing mate. Posted about it in AAM yesterday.

There needs to be more thought process behind it than "this thread has been going on for too long *lock*" or "this thread is a sensitive topic *delete*" which is how it comes across. People should be free to speak their minds within reason.

Agree with your comment on trolls too.

If you have ideas on how the moderation team can effectively deal with threads that have been allowed to go off the rails for hours before someone bothers to report something, please share them. The mods can't read every post - they rely on the community to report rule-breaking content and certainly before I retired, the community were not doing a good job of supporting the mods - I'd noticed a significant fall in the number and quality of post reporting. There were a few quality reporters, but the majority of people wouldn't bother and this has to change.
As for threads being locked for going on too long, mods aren't just there to ban people, they also have responsibility to maintain the quality of posting. A thread that's required a lot of moderation and has turned into a circular argument is a headache for the team. Locking a thread is a last resort, but if a thread is requiring so many interventions then it's a reasonable course of action to lock it. It's not practical to dedicate moderators to individual threads to proactively moderate them - there would need to be vastly more mods on the team to do this, and it's not realistic to task unpaid volunteers whose first role on the site is that of a member, not a moderator, to rota'd, full time proactive monitoring of threads.

So please; any suggestions that you have, please share them, because I personally think the team does a sterling job, considering the scope of their responsibility and how small the team is.

(Original post by PSxxx)
One improvement that could go down really well would be to have a trial for potential bannings, a random pick of say 21 active posters should vote and judge on it.

Democratic, fairish and removes criticism of moderator agenda and bias, easy to implement with today's tech.

That's a perfect vehicle for bullying. Terrible idea. Besides, TSR isn't a democracy. Don't mistake it for one. The moderation team is perfectly able to ban people with their existing remit.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by Mad Vlad)
If you have ideas on how the moderation team can effectively deal with threads that have been allowed to go off the rails for hours before someone bothers to report something, please share them. The mods can't read every post - they rely on the community to report rule-breaking content and certainly before I retired, the community were not doing a good job of supporting the mods - I'd noticed a significant fall in the number and quality of post reporting. There were a few quality reporters, but the majority of people wouldn't bother and this has to change.
As for threads being locked for going on too long, mods aren't just there to ban people, they also have responsibility to maintain the quality of posting. A thread that's required a lot of moderation and has turned into a circular argument is a headache for the team. Locking a thread is a last resort, but if a thread is requiring so many interventions then it's a reasonable course of action to lock it. It's not practical to dedicate moderators to individual threads to proactively moderate them - there would need to be vastly more mods on the team to do this, and it's not realistic to task unpaid volunteers whose first role on the site is that of a member, not a moderator, to rota'd, full time proactive monitoring of threads.

So please; any suggestions that you have, please share them, because I personally think the team does a sterling job, considering the scope of their responsibility and how small the team is.

This forum is one of the most strictly-moderated I've posted on, the most entertaining forums are the ones where the members aren't restricted -- it creates a great atmosphere. The only time a thread should be locked is if people are purposely bumping it after a lull in posts lasting days with the intention of pissing people off, that rarely happens. I was also infracted the other day because the moderator didn't have time to read my post or message me asking me to edit/delete it.

There have been four or five quality threads in the relationship forum which have been deleted -- why? Why delete a thread full of constructive posts and allow threads such as "I've trapped my cock" to continue?

As for reporting posts -- check the staff room and you'll see I regularly report posts.

Anyway, it's an internet forum not a military operation, there's no need to take it too seriously. The biggest annoyance is threads being deleted.

[Mad Vlad]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
This forum is one of the most strictly-moderated I've posted on, the most entertaining forums are the ones where the members aren't restricted -- it creates a great atmosphere. The only time a thread should be locked is if people are purposely bumping it after a lull in posts lasting days with the intention of pissing people off, that rarely happens. I was also infracted the other day because the moderator didn't have time to read my post or message me asking me to edit/delete it.

There have been four or five quality threads in the relationship forum which have been deleted -- why? Why delete a thread full of constructive posts and allow threads such as "I've trapped my cock" to continue?

As for reporting posts -- check the staff room and you'll see I regularly report posts.

Anyway, it's an internet forum not a military operation, there's no need to take it too seriously. The biggest annoyance is threads being deleted.

Far from it. This forum has pretty relaxed moderation in comparison to some I've visited in the past. While these super-relaxed forums may have a "great atmosphere", TSR is moderated according to the guidance received from its owners, and the rules are there to make sure that this site remains a great resource for students and is suitable for younger people. I personally think that TSR has a great atmosphere, it's why I still post here.

I'm not going to comment on specific cases, because I'm not privy to the circumstances. I also don't see post reporting any more as I'm no longer a moderator.

It's right for this to be dealt with seriously, though. TSR isn't a military operation, but it is a for-profit business. It's not someone's hobby - there's real money involved, and real people's jobs that are reliant on this site maintaining and further securing its market leading position.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by Mad Vlad)
Far from it. This forum has pretty relaxed moderation in comparison to some I've visited in the past. While these super-relaxed forums may have a "great atmosphere", TSR is moderated according to the guidance received from its owners, and the rules are there to make sure that this site remains a great resource for students and is suitable for younger people. I personally think that TSR has a great atmosphere, it's why I still post here.

Are you serious

This is the only board I have ever posted on where you get infractions for swearing.

If you want to be overzealous about something, how about the constant whining about Islam which is forever polluting my Discussions tab? It's a pretty backwards way of looking at things to essentially say, "you can't swear but feel free to post xenophobic and even racist threads on a daily basis".

Not meant to be criticising too much and I understand the mods put in a lot of effort so on and so forth, but you asked for suggestions.

[Mad Vlad]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)


Are you serious

This is the only board I have ever posted on where you get infractions for swearing.

If you want to be overzealous about something, how about the constant whining about Islam which is forever polluting my Discussions tab? It's a pretty backwards way of looking at things to essentially say, "you can't swear but feel free to post xenophobic and even racist threads on a daily basis".

Not meant to be criticising too much and I understand the mods put in a lot of effort so on and so forth, but you asked for suggestions.

Yes I am.

And why do you need to swear to get your point across? In a debate, there's no need for swearing - getting angry and venting that through swearing just shows that you're losing the argument, frankly. In less formal threads, just star it all out - it's pretty simple really. The policy on swearing is very clear - there's even an automatic filter that stars it all out for you if you just type out the word in full.

As for "xenophobic" or "racist" threads, it depends entirely on the context of the thread. If someone's just spouting such content to deliberately offend, then that needs reporting. But if someone's putting forward a reasoned argument without the tell-tale hyperbole - even if the opinion is arguably racist or xenophobic, then in the interest of debate, that sort of content is often allowed and should be allowed. D&CA is a difficult place to moderate because you can't win. Sometimes you're too soft on offensive points of view, or you're censoring legitimate debate. It's extremely difficult to make black or white decisions when moderating that sort of content, because it's incredibly grey and the moderators have to use their judgement as to whether something crosses the line. They make extensive use of peer-review and discussion behind the scenes to decide on difficult, precariously balanced instances where they're not 100% sure on what needs to be done and there's a wide range of experience behind them that they can call on. In general, it's better to err on the side of caution, but at the risk of being accused (as they're being here) of censorship.

[Ape Gone Insane]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)


This is the only board I have ever posted on where you get infractions for swearing.

All boards have rules. This is the only board I've posted on where there is a AAM system where you can talk directly about any infractions/have a direct private dialogue with moderators, and warning points for various rule breaking, which then accumulate into a ban.

Other forums will ban you outright for rule-breaking, at the discretion of whatever mod governs that areas with little accountability.

[thunder_chunky]

(Original post by ak137)
I suppose TSR is like DPRK in that sense.

I thought you were going to say Nazi Germany, but I guess these days people avoid Godwins law a bit more.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by Mad Vlad)
Yes I am.

And why do you need to swear to get your point across? In a debate, there's no need for swearing - getting angry and venting that through swearing just shows that you're losing the argument, frankly. In less formal threads, just star it all out - it's pretty simple really. The policy on swearing is very clear - there's even an automatic filter that stars it all out for you if you just type out the word in full.

As for "xenophobic" or "racist" threads, it depends entirely on the context of the thread. If someone's just spouting such content to deliberately offend, then that needs reporting. But if someone's putting forward a reasoned argument without the tell-tale hyperbole - even if the opinion is arguably racist or xenophobic, then in the interest of debate, that sort of content is often allowed and should be allowed. D&CA is a difficult place to moderate because you can't win. Sometimes you're too soft on offensive points of view, or you're censoring legitimate debate. It's extremely difficult to make black or white decisions when moderating that sort of content, because it's incredibly grey and the moderators have to use their judgement as to whether something crosses the line. They make extensive use of peer-review and discussion behind the scenes to decide on difficult, precariously balanced instances where they're not 100% sure on what needs to be done and there's a wide range of experience behind them that they can call on. In general, it's better to err on the side of caution, but at the risk of being accused (as they're being here) of censorship.

You don't need to, but it should be complete tolerence or nothing at all. Make a no-holds barred sub-forum that's hidden from guests or something.

(Original post by Ape Gone Insane)
All boards have rules. This is the only board I've posted on where there is a AAM system where you can talk directly about any infractions/have a direct private dialogue with moderators, and warning points for various rule breaking, which then accumulate into a ban.

Other forums will ban you outright for rule-breaking, at the discretion of whatever mod governs that areas with little accountability.

Infraction points? Most forums have those.

[thunder_chunky]

(Original post by MrHayden)
Is it me, or are the mods censoring TSR more and more? I've only been on six months or so, but it feels like there's been a notable increase in thread/post removal in just the last few weeks!
It is great that a lot of obvious trolls just get quietly removed and silenced, but these days they seem to be cutting out loads of stuff from fairly sensible and interesting debates. Why would they be doing this? And can they please stop it!

The rules are pretty stringent and not overly strict, the way they are enforced are according to the guidelines although it relies on the discretion of mods, supermods and admins. Although if they step out of line they get *******ed.

I don't think there is a great deal of censorship unless you can conclusively prove it.

(Original post by PSxxx)
One improvement that could go down really well would be to have a trial for potential bannings, a random pick of say 21 active posters should vote and judge on it.

Democratic, fairish and removes criticism of moderator agenda and bias, easy to implement with today's tech.

Hooray for democracy, except this isn't a democracy. It's a privately owned forum.

[Ape Gone Insane]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
Infraction points? Most forums have those.

I'm not convinced when you make a general statement like 'most forums have those'. I've personally never seen them in operation in any of the forums I use outside of TSR. Must be all the forums I don't visit then.

[thunder_chunky]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
You don't need to, but it should be complete tolerence or nothing at all. Make a no-holds barred sub-forum that's hidden from guests or something.

There is a swear filter to ensure people in schools and colleges have more chance of accessing the forum. Since it is...you know...a student forum. What your suggestion might be fine in practice but it could easily get out of control.

[Mad Vlad]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
You don't need to, but it should be complete tolerence or nothing at all. Make a no-holds barred sub-forum that's hidden from guests or something.

We have one. It's called the Back Room.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by Ape Gone Insane)
I'm not convinced when you make a general statement like 'most forums have those'. I've personally never seen them in operation in any of the forums I use outside of TSR. Must be all the forums I don't visit then.

Head-Fi
Red Issue
Basenotes
Bluemoon

Check them out if you don't believe me. All definitely have it. It's a staple system on most forums.

(Original post by thunder_chunky)
There is a swear filter to ensure people in schools and colleges have more chance of accessing the forum. Since it is...you know...a student forum. What your suggestion might be fine in practice but it could easily get out of control.

How is having a no-holds barred section a risk for people in school? A no-holds barred section would essentially be NSFW... If they're meant to be using the exam/info sections of the site (which would still have the swear filter) and they trail off into another section, that's their own fault. It's pointless discussing it anyway, it's not gonna happen.

But a swear filter doesn't make sense when you've got regular racist trolling and in some cases, explicit sexual discussion all over the forum. The majority of people would be more offended by the latter.

[Ape Gone Insane]

(Original post by thunder_chunky)
There is a swear filter to ensure people in schools and colleges have more chance of accessing the forum.

I've never really been convinced on that line of reasoning about swear filters automatically being the main reason for forums like these being filtered out by schools and colleges. It doesn't seem like a particularly strong reason given that a lot prominent filters will block on the basis of it being a chat room, arcade or discussion board.

As for the value of swearing in debate and discussions, my view is that it doesn't really make a difference it if is there or not. You can communicate the same point without expletives. I guess a lot of it depends on how it would be used on a forum like TSR - which would probably primarily be to insult people. As a collective entity, I don't think we are as mature as other forums.