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Do you think that having a monarch undermines the concept of democracy (in the UK)?

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  • View Poll Results: Do you think having a monarch undermines the concept of democracy (in the UK)?
    Yes
    40.24%
    No
    59.76%

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    (Original post by Piprod01)
    I don't think you have addressed my nodding dog suggestion; if you want we don't even have to put the choice of dog to a public vote and you know that dog isn't going to abuse any power, but it doesn't hurt to let him have it. You can have him nod as he passes all his adoring subjects!
    Chiefly because people like the monarchy - it's a real and potent symbol with modern relevance but also historical grandeur. A nodding dog is a nodding dog.

    As for the elected idea; why are your problems not applicable to a royal family?
    Easy! Because people have gotten very, very used to the idea that the monarchy restricts itself to ceremonial duties alone, but leaves day-to-day administration to elected ministers. It has emergency powers, but it would only ever get away with using them if the constitution were disintegrating around us.

    It simply isn't worth saving.
    What isn't?
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    Take this as a thought to think of when answering this question, think of the monarchy and parilment as a set of scales. Where the monarchy could stop the government doing whatever they want and the parilment stopping the monarchy from doing whatever they want. In away if you belive this then it means you belive that the monarchy acturaly helps UK democracy staying and not ending up with a dictatorship. I belive we acturly have a good balance and we did along time ago.
    When some countries had an Absolute Monarchy or a Republic because in some situations maybe it is best to be in the middle, not too mutch of either, besides who ever said that the public are the best people to make decisions alone?
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Hmm, I think they would, with sufficient local fame and money. Besides, we're not talking about capability, but principle - if they achieved it, I hardly think we'd be batting an eyelid.
    That Charle's personal taste of architecture made Qatar uneasy, should make us question his political influence. I don't think it's enough in itself to draw conclusions about that, but now we are one (probably cool ass) building down - I like modern buildings generally.
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    (Original post by Piprod01)
    That Charle's personal taste of architecture made Qatar uneasy, should make us question his political influence. I don't think it's enough in itself to draw conclusions about that, but now we are one (probably cool ass) building down - I like modern buildings generally.
    I am ambivalent about them - some are ok, but the designs for Chelsea barracks I was quite unimpressed by.

    If the Prince were engaging in unwarranted political influence, at least one minister would have stood before Parliament and complained of it. As it hasn't happened, it can be safely said he doesn't try it.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Chiefly because people like the monarchy - it's a real and potent symbol with modern relevance but also historical grandeur. A nodding dog is a nodding dog.
    People can just learn to like the nodding dog - he's awesome and cool because he nods. A history has gotta start somewhere!

    If nodding dog was the case from the beginning and all this history and grandeur grew up around him, would you have anything against that?
    Easy! Because people have gotten very, very used to the idea that the monarchy restricts itself to ceremonial duties alone, but leaves day-to-day administration to elected ministers. It has emergency powers, but it would only ever get away with using them if the constitution were disintegrating around us.
    There is nothing in there that an elected head of state couldn't do, so long as they were aware of their duties and expected boundaries.
    What isn't?
    The institution of the Monarchy.
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    (Original post by Piprod01)
    People can just learn to like the nodding dog - he's awesome and cool because he nods. A history has gotta start somewhere!

    If nodding dog was the case from the beginning and all this history and grandeur grew up around him, would you have anything against that?
    I wouldn't - but it isn't, now, is it? Your proposal is pointless.

    There is nothing in there that an elected head of state couldn't do,

    Assuming I did agree with that (which I don't), I could turn round and say there's nothing a monarch can't do, either. Therefore, what benefit, exactly, are we gaining from electing it?

    so long as they were aware of their duties and expected boundaries.
    Sorry, but you simply cannot legislate against personality.

    The institution of the Monarchy.
    I disagree - the institution will continue for as it is necessary - in exactly the same manner that all institutions, including democracy, will continue as long as they are necessary.
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    (Original post by Piprod01)
    The fact that there are bigger problems doesn't stop it being a problem.
    True but we only live once, nuclear power, immigration, terrorism are a whole host of more important issues to worry about. I'm all for diversity of opinion and I'm happy that there is a republican movement stimulating debate on this issue. However they cannot complain and demand "more" coverage that would outweight the important of the issue.

    (Original post by Piprod01)
    The simplest and most obvious problem is that it is just a stupid idea (Birth right? Chosen by God? lol). Another is that it prevents proper separation of church and state.
    I've said before that if we were to re-design British society (or launch an entirely new state) then a constitutional monarchy probably wouldn't be adopted. A monarchy is not a sign of progression, sure. Does it however work? Yes.
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    Yes.
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    The Queen makes a tidy profit for the UK, to the tune of £180 million. Not to mention the tourism booms and trade deals her family, associates and presence help to create. She is also a highly intelligent and experienced non-partisan advisor for our leaders to confide in and listen to each week in total privacy. I also urge you to look to the jubilee and royal wedding celebrations. Both rose Britain to the centre of the world stage and both improved the image of Britain abroad - and attracted future revenue!!

    It's a no-brainer. She is the embodiment of dedication and service. She is powerless effectively, but immeasurably helpful to the UK and her democracy. In short, the UK would be a worse place without her.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
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    No, the monarchy has no 'real' political power, she hasn't vetoed a bill already voted on in a very long time and doesn't only pass bills she likes.
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    (Original post by vulcanusii)
    The Queen makes a tidy profit for the UK, to the tune of £180 million. Not to mention the tourism booms and trade deals her family, associates and presence help to create. She is also a highly intelligent and experienced non-partisan advisor for our leaders to confide in and listen to each week in total privacy. I also urge you to look to the jubilee and royal wedding celebrations. Both rose Britain to the centre of the world stage and both improved the image of Britain abroad - and attracted future revenue!!

    It's a no-brainer. She is the embodiment of dedication and service. She is powerless effectively, but immeasurably helpful to the UK and her democracy. In short, the UK would be a worse place without her.


    This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
    What? Where'd you find that number?
    That they create a "Tourist Boom", her advise is in anyway helpful, or that the rest of the world totally cares about the Jubilee and the Wedding don't seem like solid points. I could point out that the main tourist attractions on the UK aren't in anyway dependant on the monarchy, or say that monarchists are seen as flag waving loons by people outside the UK. The rest of the world didn't care about the Jubilee, and royal wedding was such a yawn. Stick some art up in Buckingham Palace and get some tourists in there, because that seems to work for Versailles.
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    (Original post by Piprod01)
    What? Where'd you find that number?
    That they create a "Tourist Boom", her advise is in anyway helpful, or that the rest of the world totally cares about the Jubilee and the Wedding don't seem like solid points. I could point out that the main tourist attractions on the UK aren't in anyway dependant on the monarchy, or say that monarchists are seen as flag waving loons by people outside the UK. The rest of the world didn't care about the Jubilee, and royal wedding was such a yawn. Stick some art up in Buckingham Palace and get some tourists in there, because that seems to work for Versailles.
    Except it's not important that the rest of the world doesn't care: it's that the British care; do you think most of the world cares about 4th of July for the US, Canada Day, or Bastille Day in France?
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Except it's not important that the rest of the world doesn't care: it's that the British care; do you think most of the world cares about 4th of July for the US, Canada Day, or Bastille Day in France?
    Again great point. Btw did you see the story about Liechtenstein's Crown Prince? If you really want to see a country where the Monarchy acts in an undemocratic fashion then take a look at this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18649156

    Of course the powers of the King are determined at the ballot box, so you could argue that the situation is democratic. However the Prince threatened to veto the decision if the move to limit his powers had succeeded, therefore ruling out the argument that his position is democratic.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    Except it's not important that the rest of the world doesn't care: it's that the British care; do you think most of the world cares about 4th of July for the US, Canada Day, or Bastille Day in France?
    And I agree. Maybe you didn't read the post I was responding to (?).
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    I did read it I think Leichtenstein's unique as it's incredibly tiny; it's a different type of politics in so small a country. I don't condone a semi-absolute monarchy for the UK.
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    (Original post by Piprod01)
    And I agree. Maybe you didn't read the post I was responding to (?).
    While I think the post your responded to overdid the point, I daresay you overstated your opposition, too; of course the monarchy is well known worldwide as the symbol of Britain, and of course it does have an impact on tourism. I don't think that is deniable. What you can quibble about is the degree of that impact.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    While I think the post your responded to overdid the point, I daresay you overstated your opposition, too; of course the monarchy is well known worldwide as the symbol of Britain, and of course it does have an impact on tourism. I don't think that is deniable. What you can quibble about is the degree of that impact.
    Some of my post was hyperbole, but I don't think think there really is a whole lot of people who come to "see the queen" who wouldn't come for the alternative. Buckingham Palace is hardly Disney World.
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    (Original post by Piprod01)
    Some of my post was hyperbole, but I don't think think there really is a whole lot of people who come to "see the queen" who wouldn't come for the alternative. Buckingham Palace is hardly Disney World.
    I wouldn't argue that it was but there are some people who are fascinated. Even if many people come to Britain ostensibly for the city of London in general, or to check out the home of the Beatles, no doubt the idea of seeing where the monarchy lives and the history of the monarchy does factor in there somewhere.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    I wouldn't argue that it was but there are some people who are fascinated. Even if many people come to Britain ostensibly for the city of London in general, or to check out the home of the Beatles, no doubt the idea of seeing where the monarchy lives and the history of the monarchy does factor in there somewhere.
    True, just look at Pall Mall when the guards changeover. That place is filled to the rafters with international tourists. Clarkson said it best when he said that international tourists come to London for a slice of Ye' Olde Britain.

    You can see queues of Japanese tourists posing for photos outside red telephone boxes, whereas these people care nothing for The Tate Modern. I mean really, did they fly 7 thousand miles to see some chopped up cows? No.

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