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B460 - National Anthems Bill

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    B460 - National Anthems Bill, xXedixXx

    B460 - National Anthems Bill

    Preamble:
    The aim of this Bill is to change the National Anthem of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to a song that is more in the spirit of Britain rather than the monarch. As well as giving each constituent country of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland their own legally recognised National Anthems.

    BE IT ENACTED by The Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Commons in this present Parliament assembled, in accordance with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-

    1. Changes
    (1) The National Anthem of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will be changed from "God Save The Queen" to "Rule Britannia".


    2. Additions
    (1) Northern Ireland will have it's own National Anthem which will be: "Londonderry Air".
    (2) Scotland will have it's own National Anthem which will be: "Flower of Scotland".
    (3) Wales will have it's own National Anthem which will be: "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau".
    (4) England will have it's own National Anthem which will be: "Jerusalem".


    3. Commencement, short title and extent
    (1) This Act may be cited as the National Anthems Act 2012.
    (2) This bill shall extend to the United Kingdom; and
    (3) Shall come into force within six months following Royal Assent.


    Notes - xXedixXx
    Concerning the additional National Anthems these songs are already pretty much the anthems of the respective countries however they don't really have much of a legal standing.

    God Save The Queen - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBP6YJt2aVs
    Rule Britannia - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvOtbSqeejg
    Londonderry Air - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGq4kXgeoCg
    Flower of Scotland - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ5fLBEpKo8
    Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE
    Jerusalem - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ0oCmDXrVk
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    So, your going to change the national anthem from being monarchist to being imperialist? Fantastic. I will most likely abstain on the basis that the two are pretty much as bad as each other in my eyes, and also that I generally couldn't give a toss about what national anthem the British have (I consider myself Irish).
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    Since when did Parliament become the arbiter of musical taste?

    There is nothing wrong with GSTQ as the British national anthem. Rule Britannia is nice, but the tune sounds almost comical and makes it look as if we're saying: 'hey world... look, look... we were a great imperial power. Don't worry about our present and future advancements - just look at the fact that we ruled loads of the world for a few hundred years!'
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    Nd
    (Original post by CLS94)
    So, your going to change the national anthem from being monarchist to being imperialist? Fantastic. I will most likely abstain on the basis that the two are pretty much as bad as each other in my eyes, and also that I generally couldn't give a toss about what national anthem the British have (I consider myself Irish).
    Your unnecessary, popular culture-motivated feeling of obligatory national shame is immature, naive, counterproductive, and also very amusing.
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    I actually don't think ths is the worst idea in the world.
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    (Original post by CLS94)
    So, your going to change the national anthem from being monarchist to being imperialist? Fantastic. I will most likely abstain on the basis that the two are pretty much as bad as each other in my eyes, and also that I generally couldn't give a toss about what national anthem the British have (I consider myself Irish).
    It's not imperialist; it's patriotic. Britain needs to be more like the USA and Canada in celebrating our nation, being proud and patriotic without worrying about offending people. It's not racist to be proud of your country.

    If you consider yourself Irish and are going to abstain because this is about Britain then why do you debate in the MHoC? Everything in the MHoC is concerning Britain; that doesn't make sense to me.


    (Original post by Lord-Voldemort)
    Since when did Parliament become the arbiter of musical taste?

    There is nothing wrong with GSTQ as the British national anthem. Rule Britannia is nice, but the tune sounds almost comical and makes it look as if we're saying: 'hey world... look, look... we were a great imperial power. Don't worry about our present and future advancements - just look at the fact that we ruled loads of the world for a few hundred years!'
    There is a lot wrong with GSTQ as the British National Anthem; for a start it doesn't mention the actual country once. It just goes on and on about the Queen who's not even fully British... It's pathetic and embarrassing as our National Anthem. It doesn't sound comical, it sounds up beat yes, but not comical as opposed to the deary crap from GSTQ.
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    I prefer I Vow To Thee My Country. Either way, though, GSTQ is awful. Not because of any anti-monarchic sentiment, but purely due to its awful melody and uninspiring words.

    I expect there will be much opposition to 'Jerusalem' for England from the usual useful idiots - I wonder how many times the word 'secular' will come up in this thread.
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    (Original post by xXedixXx)
    It's not imperialist it's patriotic. Britain needs to be more like the USA and Canada in celebrating our nation, being proud and patriotic without worrying about offending people. It's not racist to be proud of your country.

    If you consider yourself Irish and are going to abstain because this is about Britain then why do you debate in the MHoC? Everything in the MHoC is concerning Britain; that doesn't make sense to me.
    I can debate Britain as the society in which I live, as the vast majority of decisions taken on here effect the lives of people resident in Britain. This however only really has an effect I feel on British people, rather than all those who live here, and therefore does not particularly concern me. Also, that is only the secondary reason for me abstaining, the imperialism is the main part. For me, it celebrates the Empire which has caused great damage to many nations around the world, and that most certainly makes it imperialist. If not for the fact that the current anthem is also ridiculously bad and celebratory of an equally destructive institution, I would be voting no.
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    (Original post by xXedixXx)
    There is a lot wrong with GSTQ as the British National Anthem; for a start it doesn't mention the actual country once. It just goes on and on about the Queen.
    That's the point - the song does not reference the bit of land that is the United Kingdom, but the person who is supposed to embody the nation. The Queen represents the state and the country as a whole.

    who's not even fully British...
    She's as British as you or I. Just because she has the odd European relative does not invalidate her status as British.

    It's pathetic and embarrassing as our National Anthem. It doesn't sound comical, it sounds up beat yes, but not comical as opposed to the deary crap from GSTQ.
    This is all just subjective waffle. Some people like the sound of GTSQ, others like the sound of RB - it's all relative, which is why Parliament should not be the arbiter of musical taste.
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    (Original post by CLS94)
    So, your going to change the national anthem from being monarchist to being imperialist? Fantastic. I will most likely abstain on the basis that the two are pretty much as bad as each other in my eyes, and also that I generally couldn't give a toss about what national anthem the British have (I consider myself Irish).
    And isn't it about time you changed your signature? You lost...
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    (Original post by tufc)
    I prefer I Vow To Thee My Country. Either way, though, GSTQ is awful. Not because of any anti-monarchic sentiment, but purely due to its awful melody and uninspiring words.

    I expect there will be much opposition to 'Jerusalem' for England from the usual useful idiots - I wonder how many times the word 'secular' will come up in this thread.
    I myself am an atheist but I do acknowledge that Christianity is a big part of England, the song also talks about England as a country so I think it'a quite suitable.

    I think the main debate is found in changing the National Anthem of the UK as a whole.
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    (Original post by CLS94)
    I can debate Britain as the society in which I live, as the vast majority of decisions taken on here effect the lives of people resident in Britain. This however only really has an effect I feel on British people, rather than all those who live here, and therefore does not particularly concern me. Also, that is only the secondary reason for me abstaining, the imperialism is the main part. For me, it celebrates the Empire which has caused great damage to many nations around the world, and that most certainly makes it imperialist. If not for the fact that the current anthem is also ridiculously bad and celebratory of an equally destructive institution, I would be voting no.

    You're trying to make us Britons feel guilty about being British. By saying that "we've caused great damage to many nations around the world"... Although the British Empire did some things wrong it also did a lot of good: built and helped to build infrastructure networks across many countries for a start, also you need to take into account that Britain wasn't the only empire building nation, eventually most of the countries that came under the British Empire would have come under one of the other big players anyway. I for one will not be deterred by your attempt to make me feel guilty. I'm proud to be British and always will be.
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    What's wrong with Land of Hope and Glory? :mad:
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    (Original post by Lord-Voldemort)
    That's the point - the song does not reference the bit of land that is the United Kingdom, but the person who is supposed to embody the nation. The Queen represents the state and the country as a whole.



    She's as British as you or I. Just because she has the odd European relative does not invalidate her status as British.



    This is all just subjective waffle. Some people like the sound of GTSQ, others like the sound of RB - it's all relative, which is why Parliament should not be the arbiter of musical taste.
    1) It should reference Britain. The song is the British National Anthem which should be about the land and the people not be reliant on the Monarch.

    2) She's not as British as me, I didn't say it "invalidates her status as British" I merely stated she's not fully British so I fail to see how she embodies the nation and I don't..

    3) Exactly, some people like it; others don't that's why we're voting on it..
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    (Original post by xXedixXx)
    You're trying to make us Britons feel guilty about being British. By saying that "we've caused great damage to many nations around the world"... Although the British Empire did some things wrong it also did a lot of good: built and helped to build infrastructure networks across many countries for a start, also you need to take into account that Britain wasn't the only empire building nation, eventually most of the countries that came under the British Empire would have come under one of the other big players anyway. I for one will not be deterred by your attempt to make me feel guilty. I'm proud to be Britisnh and always will be.
    OMG PROUD TO BE BRITISH???!! UR A RAAAAYYYYCCIISSTT!!!!!! :facepalm:
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    (Original post by Great Lord Xenu)
    What's wrong with Land of Hope and Glory? :mad:
    It's a nice patriotic song but I feel that the National Anthem should include the name of the country it's the Anthem for.
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    (Original post by tufc)
    OMG PROUD TO BE BRITISH???!! UR A RAAAAYYYYCCIISSTT!!!!!! :facepalm:
    Yup, apparently I must be. In the USA and Canada you don't get this weird sense of embarrassment about being patriotic.
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    (Original post by xXedixXx)
    You're trying to make us Britons feel guilty about being British. By saying that "we've caused great damage to many nations around the world"... Although the British Empire did some things wrong it also did a lot of good: built and helped to build infrastructure networks across many countries for a start, also you need to take into account that Britain wasn't the only empire building nation, eventually most of the countries that came under the British Empire would have come under one of the other big players anyway. I for one will not be deterred by your attempt to make me feel guilty. I'm proud to be British and always will be.
    Wow, I've been quoted out of context before but I think this is the first time someone has actually changed the words within a quote to make it look like I've said something completely different I never used the word 'We've', I used 'Which' quite clearly in reference to the Empire rather than British people, assuming that's what you mean by 'We'. There was no intention to make you feel guilty, that's just the impression given by your made-up quote. Whether the Empire was good or bad is quite clearly subjective; whilst I can see your argument, I personally think the slavery and poor conditions it imposed do not justify the supposed benefits. I accept that many countries would have simply come under a different empire anyway, but fail to see why this means Britain should adopt an anthem celebrating empire - it is irrelevant to the argument at hand.
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    (Original post by xXedixXx)
    1) It should reference Britain. The song is the British National Anthem which should be about the land and the people not be reliant on the Monarch.
    Similar to how the US national anthem references a flag - it is a symbol and the embodiment of the nation. Thus, by referring to the Queen - GTSQ is about the land and the people.

    2) She's not as British as me, I didn't say it "invalidates her status as British" I merely stated she's not fully British so I fail to see how she embodies the nation and I don't..
    She can trace her lineage back as far as Edward the Confessor - if we're going down the arbitrary ancestor route. The few ancestors of the Queen's (including her grandmother Mary of Teck), who technically originated from other European states, usually had a mother or father of British origin (Mary of Teck's mother was a British princess).

    So every one of your ancestors was born in Britain, and they in turn have both a paternal and maternal lineage which has never left these shores? Do you honestly believe one's 'Britishness' is calculated in how few ancestors you have who were from other countries? If so, what is the cut off line?

    And please do explain how the Queen isn't 'fully British', yet presumably - most other British citizens are.
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    Not sure about setting Londonderry Air as the "official" NI anthem. Much like NI doesn't have an "official" flag right now.
Updated: June 15, 2012
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