[MonkeySee]

(Original post by 4metal)
Islam is a religion of equality....

But having lived in Saudi Arabia (the birthplace of Islam), this does not seem to be the case.

At the top you have the local rich Saudis who get the top jobs, then arabs from other countries, then whites, then east europeans.

At the bottom you have asians such as bangladeshis, pakistanis, afghans, kurds, malaysians and indonesians followed by the blacks. These people never get the top jobs, they are officially discriminated in the job market and are not considered real muslims by the average Saudi. So many horror stories about how they are beaten and mistreated...

So is Islam really a religion of equality?

you forgot about WOMEN! they are not allowed to drive, they cant go out alone, and have to cover their faces. They are treated as property, lower than slaves.

[NewCrack]

(Original post by 4metal)

So is Islam really a religion of equality?

Yes this is a corruption which dated back centuries ago concerning the succession of ameer ul mu'mineen. I suggest you take you time to watch this video. Islam is independant of its people.

i suggest you watch the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7LGo...feature=relmfu

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by 4metal)
The value in a religion is how it's actually practiced by its people, not what is written in the books.

It's sadly a fact that slavery was practiced in the Islamic world for the last 1400 years. Non-arab muslims were sold into slavery by Arab muslims. It was only in the 1960's that Saudi Arabia finally abolished official slavery ( due to western pressure). The role of slave changed to bonded labour (keeping the passports).

Ever seen a 12 yearld old pakistani camel boy getting killed in a Saudi camel race? Heard of bangladeshi and indonesian maids beaten to death without any consequences? Black muslims lynched by racist arab muslims in sudan? Arab sex tourists traveling to muslim asian countries for quick marriages and divorce? Racial discrimination in the gulf job market etc.

How far do you think the attitudes of the master towards his former slaves has changed in the last 50 years? Of course it is admirable that non-arab muslims from poor countries have clinged to the faith and changed their names, culture and scripture to arabic ones despite being treated badly. The racial hirarchy is not as open as compared to the christian racial hirarchy during colonial times, but it is clearly there.

That shows ignorance and the value to religion to those people..............not all of them. You cannot base a religions value by the people that practice it when they aren't truly practicing it properly.
Because that's sheer stupidity, you could get the worst kind of human who says they are Muslim and say oh you rape people, kill people, must mean its acceptable in your faith which isn't true, when their actions are contradicting their faith.

Slavery was practiced commonly back when the prophet was around, the way Islam works is going slowly and ridding itself of certain things like alcohol, it was slowly taken out and forbidden as was slavery. He even freed one and he choose to stay with him. Saudi Arabia is run by a family, which doesn't represent Islam in anyway.

Yes I have heard of all those things, and frankly it's wrong in Islam, any Muslim will tell you that.........they are contradicting their faith and are sinning.

The Qu'ran has always been in a certain form of Arabic which isn't exactly used today for many societies and is used simply because translations will change the meaning. Nor have any nations changed their culture, people still hold on to culture especially in South Asia and mix their faith up with it which is also wrong.

There is so much in Islam which directly prohibited making distinctions of Muslims.........as well as of people's colours.....................thos e people are ignorant...............it's simply because of culture and the continued upbringing in their society where racism towards others is rife. It has nothing to do with faith at all.................

[tazarooni89]

The simple answer: Saudi Arabia (as well as other Muslim countries and Muslim individuals) do many things which are un-Islamic.
I don't know why some people have so much trouble understanding this to be honest, it sounds easy enough...

[thinbeard]

Saudi Arabia did not abolish slavery until 1962 -- At which time about 20% of is population was black slaves.

[fuze-mo25]

Saudi Arabia is the most religious place as in holy sites in the world. However their government and kings are pretty much the most terrible out of all the "Islamic" nations.

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by 4metal)
The value in a religion is how it's actually practiced by its people, not what is written in the books.

This doesn't make sense.
A person only becomes one of "its people" by practising the religion the way it is written in the books. If you practise a religion contrary to the way its scripture commands, then you aren't really practising that religion. You're just saying that you're practising it.

It's like a person telling you they're speaking French, but none of the words they're using are found in the French dictionary. Well then they're not really speaking French, they're just talking jibberish.
Or it's like a person saying he's obeying the law, but contravening lots of acts and statutes that have been written. In which case he isn't really obeying the law after all. So then, if he goes and starts stealing things, it's not the law which is problematic, it's him.

[Iqbal007]

(Original post by tazarooni89)
This doesn't make sense.
A person only becomes one of "its people" by practising the religion the way it is written in the books. If you practise a religion contrary to the way its scripture commands, then you aren't really practising that religion. You're just saying that you're practising it.

It's like a person telling you they're speaking French, but none of the words they're using are found in the French dictionary. Well then they're not really speaking French, they're just talking jibberish.
Or it's like a person saying he's obeying the law, but contravening lots of acts that have been written. In which case he isn't really obeying the law after all.

I had to deal with him since he started this stupid thread

[4metal]

(Original post by tazarooni89)
This doesn't make sense.
A person only becomes one of "its people" by practising the religion the way it is written in the books. If you practise a religion contrary to the way its scripture commands, then you aren't really practising that religion. You're just saying that you're practising it.

It's like a person telling you they're speaking French, but none of the words they're using are found in the French dictionary. Well then they're not really speaking French, they're just talking jibberish.
Or it's like a person saying he's obeying the law, but contravening lots of acts and statutes that have been written. In which case he isn't really obeying the law after all. So then, if he goes and starts stealing things, it's not the law which is problematic, it's him.

No.... according to the mullahs, you can never leave Islam. So if majority of its people do not follow Islam then Islam has failed. You can talk about how 'lovely' islam is, but if the reality is different then talk is an illusion.

If you want to hide your head and wash your hands of responsibility then fine.

[zedeneye1]

(Original post by 4metal)
Islam is a religion of equality....

But having lived in Saudi Arabia (the birthplace of Islam), this does not seem to be the case.

At the top you have the local rich Saudis who get the top jobs, then arabs from other countries, then whites, then east europeans.

At the bottom you have asians such as bangladeshis, pakistanis, afghans, kurds, malaysians and indonesians followed by the blacks. These people never get the top jobs, they are officially discriminated in the job market and are not considered real muslims by the average Saudi. So many horror stories about how they are beaten and mistreated...

So is Islam really a religion of equality?

uk is equally racist then...lol

priority is given to british people and then come europeans and then the rest when it comes to jobs...

the problem is that a saudi government will always prioritize saudi citizens in everything.

those who are not considered real muslims are shias and ahmedis etc etc....

[TheMJCG]

Islam was a religion of equality when it started out, thats how it got so many countries under its influenced. It was simple and everyone was equal. After it gained power, this is a while after prophet Mohammad, it started to get corrupted and a heirachy was formed. The kings put themselves at the top and made social classes. But after all these years each country has their way interpreting Islam, some follow only some rules, some add other rules, others modernize it with today's society. You can not judge a religion by one country that seems to be obsessed with it. Now to the main part, what Saudi Arabia does has nothing to do with Islam, they just use the advantageous cheap labor and since they can, they put themselves at the top. Its nothing to do with Islam, its to do with Saudi.

[4metal]

(Original post by TheMJCG)
Islam was a religion of equality when it started out, thats how it got so many countries under its influenced. It was simple and everyone was equal. After it gained power, this is a while after prophet Mohammad, it started to get corrupted and a heirachy was formed. The kings put themselves at the top and made social classes. But after all these years each country has their way interpreting Islam, some follow only some rules, some add other rules, others modernize it with today's society. You can not judge a religion by one country that seems to be obsessed with it. Now to the main part, what Saudi Arabia does has nothing to do with Islam, they just use the advantageous cheap labor and since they can, they put themselves at the top. Its nothing to do with Islam, its to do with Saudi.

You're from Iran? If I'm not mistaken, your ancient civilization was conquered by the Arabs in war?

[manaffhumble]

(Original post by 4metal)
Islam is a religion of equality....

But having lived in Saudi Arabia (the birthplace of Islam), this does not seem to be the case.

At the top you have the local rich Saudis who get the top jobs, then arabs from other countries, then whites, then east europeans.

At the bottom you have asians such as bangladeshis, pakistanis, afghans, kurds, malaysians and indonesians followed by the blacks. These people never get the top jobs, they are officially discriminated in the job market and are not considered real muslims by the average Saudi. So many horror stories about how they are beaten and mistreated...

So is Islam really a religion of equality?

Islam is perfect, muslims are not. islam is categorically against racism, and prophet muhammed S.A.W made it clear in his last sermon.

[manaffhumble]

(Original post by 4metal)
Islam is a religion of equality....

But having lived in Saudi Arabia (the birthplace of Islam), this does not seem to be the case.

At the top you have the local rich Saudis who get the top jobs, then arabs from other countries, then whites, then east europeans.

At the bottom you have asians such as bangladeshis, pakistanis, afghans, kurds, malaysians and indonesians followed by the blacks. These people never get the top jobs, they are officially discriminated in the job market and are not considered real muslims by the average Saudi. So many horror stories about how they are beaten and mistreated...

So is Islam really a religion of equality?

Islam is perfect, muslims are not. islam is categorically against racism, and prophet muhammed S.A.W made it clear in his last sermon.

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves"

[TheMJCG]

(Original post by 4metal)
You're from Iran? If I'm not mistaken, your ancient civilization was conquered by the Arabs in war?

Yes I am . Yes again our ancient civilization was conquered and destroyed completely by the Arabs. One of the factors of why the Persians lost was because of the equality of Islam. While Persian Emperors where at the top of the social class with incredible lives ... Arab leaders ate with their soldiers, lived the same lifestyle as their soldiers and that attracted Persians into accepting the Arabs.

[4metal]

(Original post by TheMJCG)
Yes I am . Yes again our ancient civilization was conquered and destroyed completely by the Arabs. One of the factors of why the Persians lost was because of the equality of Islam. While Persian Emperors where at the top of the social class with incredible lives ... Arab leaders ate with their soldiers, lived the same lifestyle as their soldiers and that attracted Persians into accepting the Arabs.

And today the mullah clerics in Iran are at the top of the social class?

[mohsanrabbani]

(Original post by 4metal)
Islam is a religion of equality....

But having lived in Saudi Arabia (the birthplace of Islam), this does not seem to be the case.

At the top you have the local rich Saudis who get the top jobs, then arabs from other countries, then whites, then east europeans.

At the bottom you have asians such as bangladeshis, pakistanis, afghans, kurds, malaysians and indonesians followed by the blacks. These people never get the top jobs, they are officially discriminated in the job market and are not considered real muslims by the average Saudi. So many horror stories about how they are beaten and mistreated...

So is Islam really a religion of equality?

Saudi's think of themselves as an elite nation, and by having so much oil/wealth its hard for a vast amount of people(in there position) to stay humble.

[tazarooni89]

(Original post by 4metal)
No.... according to the mullahs, you can never leave Islam. So if majority of its people do not follow Islam then Islam has failed. You can talk about how 'lovely' islam is, but if the reality is different then talk is an illusion.

If you want to hide your head and wash your hands of responsibility then fine.

Again, this sentence is meaningless, and self-contradictory. If they don't follow Islam, then in what sense are they "it's people"?

[susuthemusu]

well the doctor only goes where most help is needed. which is why the religion is based around this country.

it just a terrible mentality from arabs generally, i dont know whether its their ego or what. being part arab and living with them for ages helps me see why they get the treatment they do.
certainly has nothing to do with islam however.

[TheMJCG]

(Original post by 4metal)
And today the mullah clerics in Iran are at the top of the social class?

Not exactly. They do get advantages in certain areas, but now in Iran whoever can get rich(Which is very easy in Iran) will fall into the higher social class.