[Michaelking]

Why is it fair you get a better education than someone living LDC?

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by Silver Aurora)
it is an equal comparison such is the capitalist world we live in and sad it isn't, if you pay the money ( the money that you've most likely earnt ) than why shouldn't you get better education for your money?

Actually it isn't an equal comparison. And it's not you getting a better education for your money it's your children.

(Original post by Shabalala)
Life's not fair get used to it

Is it fair that people get a job over someone more qualified just because their parents know someone who works there?
Is it fair that minorities sometimes get jobs over the majority who are better qualified just so company's can fill in their equal oppertunities quota?
Is it fair some people are born into poverty while some are born into more wealth than they need

Right so because life's not fair we shouldn't try to change it? Oh I'm glad Martin Luther King never bumped into you on his journey.

(Original post by Nick100)
Firstly; how is it more fair for someone to have an advantage due to their inherited intelligence rather than due to their inherited wealth?

Secondly; even if we accepted that it was more fair the education system would be far less efficient if we replaced all private schools with state schools. The reason being that private schools are evidently better at getting people to achieve their potential compared to state schools. If we want to improve the system we ought to look at why private schools are so much more effective.

I strongly believe people don't inherit intelligence but it's all to do with their surroundings so I can't argue your first point.

And I agree, but by doing that would be just as good as removing private schools because if a state school is as good nobody would pay for them

[kf289]

As a teacher in an independent school I would say that smaller class sizes is the key. It means that more attention can be paid to each pupil, more support given when needed and work is marked more regularly and thoroughly. It is not necessarily a case of better facilities, we have one ancient desktop computer in each classroom and no interactive whiteboards, most rooms don't even have a projector. Whereas many state schools (especially new academies) that I have been in have modern, fancy buildings and are bursting at the seams with technology - this does not equate to good results.

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by Drewski)
So are you going to ban private tutoriing, too?

If people in state schools had as good education as people in private schools perhaps there'd be no need for private tutoring. Well done for not adressing my points though..

[MovieMoments]

Erm, I go to a state school and the majority of my friends all got A*s and As...

[Drewski]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
If people in state schools had as good education as people in private schools perhaps there'd be no need for private tutoring. Well done for not adressing my points though..

Don't be naive, of course there would be.

Every parent wants their kid to go to Oxbridge - so they send them to private schools. Every parent wants their kid to stand out above the other candidates for those limited places at the better universities - so they get them tutoring to enable the kid to do as well as possible in the exams.

That would never ever stop, unless you're completely altering universities and their entrance systems too.


Not addressing your points? Ok, here goes; "there there, we accept that you didn't get the best grades you could have because you didn't go to private school".

You want to do away with elitism? A reasonable cause, and certainly the heart's in the right place, but you're going the wrong way about it. You're getting rid of the symptom, not the cause.

[lucaf]

I can see why it isn't fair, but then it would be even more unfair to get rid of them. if the possibility of better education for their kids is there, and they can afford it, why shouldn't they be able to get it for them, just because other people cannot afford it? it is private enterprise, you can't really ban it just because it is better than the free state alternative, just like we do not get rid of private healthcare or pensions.

besides, getting rid of private schools will not actually help worse off families, it would just spite the rich. it will not improve the standards of the state schools, which will in fact be under even more pressure since now they have additional students who previously helped fund them by taxes without actually using their resources. abolishing them would either result in less money spent per student or higher taxes, and would lower the national average of education.

the answer for more equal education is easy: bring back the grammar schools! they are easily the best opportunity for talented children from disadvantaged backgrounds to succeed in school.

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by Drewski)
Don't be naive, of course there would be.

Every parent wants their kid to go to Oxbridge - so they send them to private schools. Every parent wants their kid to stand out above the other candidates for those limited places at the better universities - so they get them tutoring to enable the kid to do as well as possible in the exams.

That would never ever stop, unless you're completely altering universities and their entrance systems too.


Not addressing your points? Ok, here goes; "there there, we accept that you didn't get the best grades you could have because you didn't go to private school".

You want to do away with elitism? A reasonable cause, and certainly the heart's in the right place, but you're going the wrong way about it. You're getting rid of the symptom, not the cause.

Okay so obviously making it personal you haven't a single reply to my posts.

Just because there'll always be inequality doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it fairer, as we could by getting rid of private schools. People like you are such cynics, and if everyone was like you nothing would get done.

[princess.leia]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
The title is more of a crowd drawer than my actual opinion, I'm still undecided on the 'private school issue' but I'm prepared to swing either way so convince me otherwise TSR.

I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.

At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."

For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.

So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?

I'm just wondering, so discuss.

Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?


Before anyone tries telling me their own opinion here are some facts taken from the BBC.

8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.

It's not fair for someone at a state school who works hard to have less of an opportunity just because of money no - there you have a point. But we can't really blame private schools. The situation should just give state schools more of an incentive to improve their standards, but it's not really happening?

I'm no expert in the situation, however I can just speak from my personal experience. Where I lived (Stockwell) there just weren't any good state schools. I tried for a good state school which was quite far but due to the distance wasn't offered a place (don't know what the system is like now). I therefore put down a private school and am one of a small group with bursaries - it was our best option. Another friend of mine joined in the sixth form precisely because she just couldn't work in her state school, the atmosphere didn't encourage it at all.
Don't get me wrong, the experience hasn't been completely amazing, some of the people at my school really don't deserve to be there and it angers us (but that's a different story) but in terms of education it was very important for us.

[Drewski]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Okay so obviously making it personal you haven't a single reply to my posts.

Just because there'll always be inequality doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it fairer, as we could by getting rid of private schools. People like you are such cynics, and if everyone was like you nothing would get done.

One flippant line in my reply does not negate the rest of it.
Maybe I am a cynic. But your proposal is worthy of cynicism because it's complete bolleaux and, if I'm honest, sounds more like jealousy than anything else [not saying it is jealousy, but that it sounds like it is]. Come up with an idea that would work and I'll get behind it.

By the way, don't single me out, almost every post on this thread is saying the same thing: getting rid of inequality is a noble idea - but this idea isn't the way to do it.


What about my point re: unviersities? You don't even attempt to answer that. Parents want their kid to have an advantage over others so that they can get that spot at uni. There are what, 250-300,000 kids in a school year across the country? Are you going to make enough uni spots available at Oxbridge for all of them every year, because if they're all getting the same education and same chances, they'll want to be there.

[Roaroaroar]

Why is it fair that someone gets friends who support them in their studies whilst I don't? Why is it fair that someone gets extra tuition due to their wealthy yet I don't? Why is it fair that someone gets parents who went to Oxbridge yet I don't? Why is it fair that someone gets access to better study tools than me?

All these factors effects education attainment. Heck, why is it fair that you get to attend education whilst some children in Asia and Africa don't? Why is it fair that national borders decides your standard of living?

[Shabalala]

(Original post by Miracle Day)

Right so because life's not fair we shouldn't try to change it? Oh I'm glad Martin Luther King never bumped into you on his journey.

I strongly believe people don't inherit intelligence but it's all to do with their surroundings

and if you try to change it then you will end up making things worse if you stopped giving minorities from poorer backgrounds a better chance than the majority race/population then then they are likley to become "ghettos" and more detached from society, and tell me why parents shouldn't be allowed to help get me a job by using contacts? or should we in this country and the western world in general forced to give up most of my money and income to divide it between us and all the poor people in Africa why is it fair that they are dying of starvation?

Look at South Africa/Zimbabwe during the appartied the white people controlled the farms and the black people worked on them and the white people directed them and the farms were succesfull but in a push for equality the goverment forced most of the white people to give up/sell their farm to the Africans who didn't have the required knowledge to run the farm properly and have now fallen apart and are in ruins leaving more people starving was that worth it for the sake of equality?

We live in a capitalist society if you want absoloute equality then you support communism and the human race isn't ready/developed enough for communism there is too much greed and selfishness in the human race for that to happen yet.

As for your belief that we don't inherit intelligence then you are completley wrong yes upbringing can play a big part in it but it's a fact that inheritence plays a massive part how do you reckon Albert Einstein's mother raised him to be a genius? the answer is she didn't he was born with immense intelligence.

[jhenryg]

In an ideal world all education across the world would be to the same standard of teaching of the highest level.

But it's not an ideal world......

Is it fair you live somewhere you don't fear persecution because of your beliefs?

Is it fair you have food on your plate and parents that care about you?

My parents put themselves through huge financial struggle to send me to a good school in my area and I work very hard so that one day I can pay then back.

Also my school hands out £100k plus in scholarships a year so it's not completely closed to you if you feel you should be at a private school but aren't able to financially!

This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[TheHansa]

Should you get to eat nice food when people in India are starving?

[princess.leia]

(Original post by lucaf)
I can see why it isn't fair, but then it would be even more unfair to get rid of them. if the possibility of better education for their kids is there, and they can afford it, why shouldn't they be able to get it for them, just because other people cannot afford it? it is private enterprise, you can't really ban it just because it is better than the free state alternative, just like we do not get rid of private healthcare or pensions.

besides, getting rid of private schools will not actually help worse off families, it would just spite the rich. it will not improve the standards of the state schools, which will in fact be under even more pressure since now they have additional students who previously helped fund them by taxes without actually using their resources. abolishing them would either result in less money spent per student or higher taxes, and would lower the national average of education.

the answer for more equal education is easy: bring back the grammar schools! they are easily the best opportunity for talented children from disadvantaged backgrounds to succeed in school.

I completely agree with you. Kids with wealthy parents will always have an advantage and not just because they can afford private schools. Tutors, help from their parents that others may not be able to offer, contacts, a better understanding of how university/the work place works... the list goes on.
Grammar schools yes! And private schools should continue to try offer more and more bursaries/scolarships.

[Silver Aurora]

[QUOTE=Miracle Day;38049314]Actually it isn't an equal comparison. And it's not you getting a better education for your money it's your children.


Well it is so get packing to a communist state

[chapman.]

You get what you pay for, like all things.

If I was the best Biology teacher in England where will I go, a state school where I will be abused by some pupils, or a private school where I'll get paid twice the salary and will; quite frankly teach better behaved and brought up pupils.

[lucaf]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Just because there'll always be inequality doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it fairer, as we could by getting rid of private schools. People like you are such cynics, and if everyone was like you nothing would get done.

but the thing is, it won't make things better. as it is, parents of privately educated children are still funding state schools through taxes, and not costing the state school system anything. get rid of private schools and suddenly the state school budget has to stretch to accommodate the 8% more students. worse off pupils will not benefit, it will just hurt rich ones.

the unfortunate fact of the world is that rich people can buy better stuff. get rid of private schools and they will still buy expensive tutors, better study tools, extra courses and so on. but you can't just shut down a private enterprise because rich people benefit from it. what they should focus on is improving state schools, not abolishing private ones

[Nick100]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I strongly believe people don't inherit intelligence but it's all to due with their surroundings so I can't argue your first point.

Whether it's due to nature or nurture it is still entirely a product of the circumstances of their birth.

And I agree, but by doing that would be just as good as removing private schools because if a state school is as good nobody would pay for them

It isn't the same as forcibly closing all private schools though. Forcibly closing private schools does not improve state schools, but improving state schools would reduce demand on private schools (although I doubt they'd go away).

[AishaTara]

well I guess its simple, their parents have the money to send them to a school where they get extra help/support, smaller classes etc and facilities so they go there and some do well and others dont make use of it and dont do well.
its unfair I know but if their parents can and want to pay for it, good for them. in UK people are still much better off than in other countries I'd say, where they have to pay for education and if they cant, tough luck no school.