[DaveSmith99]

(Original post by im so academic)
It's impossible for a comprehensive system to even match the success, let alone exceed, what selective private schools do.

Why? Given enough resources anythings possible.

[Pride]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I strongly believe people don't inherit intelligence but it's all to do with their surroundings so I can't argue your first point.

And I agree, but by doing that would be just as good as removing private schools because if a state school is as good nobody would pay for them

this is completely wrong I'm afraid.

I agree that the whole thing's unfair. But in a capitalist society, inequalities like this will always be. What about private healthcare, private tuition? Should these also be banned?

for there to be complete fairness, we'd need a communist state. Would you like that?

Again, I completely agree that it's unfair. But that's capitalism for you. If you were wealthy, would you not want to give your kids as much of an advantage as you could afford? I mean, if you were to look at it further, then helping your son out with his homework would be unfair, private tuition would be unfair.

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by Pride)
this is completely wrong I'm afraid.

I agree that the whole thing's unfair. But in a capitalist society, inequalities like this will always be. What about private healthcare, private tuition? Should these also be banned?

for there to be complete fairness, we'd need a communist state. Would you like that?

Again, I completely agree that it's unfair. But that's capitalism for you. If you were wealthy, would you not want to give your kids as much of an advantage as you could afford? I mean, if you were to look at it further, then helping your son out with his homework would be unfair, private tuition would be unfair.

Do you have empirical evidence to back that up? And don't ask me if I have any because I said I said it subjectively, you said it objectively

[Pride]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Do you have empirical evidence to back that up? And don't ask me if I have any because I said I said it subjectively, you said it objectively

evidence? think about it logically

ideally, ability would be directly proportional to effort. But that simply isn't the case.

People have different maximum potentials, people absorb information quicker than others, that is that I'm afraid.

Of course, our effort and the people around us influence our level of intelligence. But, for example, I could say I could never be as good a physicist as Einstein, simply because he was better, he had a gift, a gift I don't have. Not because I could never try to be on his level.

I could never be as good a runner as Usain Bolt.
I could never play chess so well that I win a world championship.

I could go on...
we have different maximum potentials.

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by Pride)
evidence? think about it logically

ideally, ability would be directly proportional to effort. But that simply isn't the case.

People have different maximum potentials, people absorb information quicker than others, that is that I'm afraid.

Of course, our effort and the people around us influence our level of intelligence. But, for example, I could say I could never be as good a physicist as Einstein, simply because he was better, he had a gift, a gift I don't have. Not because I could never try to be on his level.

I could never be as good a runner as Usain Bolt.
I could never play chess so well that I win a world championship.

I could go on...
we have different maximum potentials.

I'm talking about education potentials. Running is physical, so that's a moot example.

You can better yourself at chess if you practice.

I completely disagree with you. I believe people are only as good as their surroundings. As far as I see, it's not logical and you have no evidence to prove you're right and nor do I it's just personal opinion. I see my view as being more logical infact.

[Aeonstorm]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I'm talking about education potentials. Running is physical, so that's a moot example.

You can better yourself at chess if you practice.

I completely disagree with you. I believe people are only as good as their surroundings. As far as I see, it's not logical and you have no evidence to prove you're right and nor do I it's just personal opinion. I see my view as being more logical infact.

Education potential is in fact the same as running. Some people are naturally more intelligent than others due to genetics. You can practice chess as much as you want, but you'll never be as good as a grandmaster. The idea of meritocracy and equality are not fully compatible - you have to sacrifice bits of both to make them work together.

[Iron Lady]

(Original post by DaveSmith99)
Everything isn't as black and white as you seem to think it is. Back in high school I was one of the kids who was sat at the back being disruptive. This disruption included throwing stuff at teachers, getting drunk, shouting stuff out and so on. I don't want to go too much into why I was acting like this but it I was having some pretty serious issues at home, that included my parents divorcing, one of my parents fighting cancer and a number of other serious illnesses and the other going through bankruptcy, among other things.

I had some teachers who just didn't care and just wanted me gone so they could get on with teaching the kids who wanted to learn, and in these subjects I just scrapped through and managed to get C's. There were a couple of other teachers that didn't act like this, they tried to understand why I was acting out, tried to motivate me, and treated me like a student, not just a piece of dirt on their shoe that they wanted rid of and didn't care about. These teachers won my respect and because of this I wanted to learn, I wasn't disruptive in their classes and I got good grades.

So I completely disagree that it isn't a teachers job to motivate and discipline students, if they didn't then the education system would be failing thousands of students.

I have some questions to ask, please don't take offence:

1. How old were you?
2. Were there other poorly behaved children that could have encouraged you?
3. Were there children who raised their concerns about your disruptive behaviour?
4. Why couldn't have controlled yourself?
5. Do you feel any remorse?

My feeling is that you're not the only person in the world who has issues.

Teachers are there to teach, I wish students would realise that before they throw their dolls out of the pram.

[DaveSmith99]

(Original post by Iron Lady)
I have some questions to ask, please don't take offence:

1. How old were you?
2. Were there other poorly behaved children that could have encouraged you?
3. Were there children who raised their concerns about your disruptive behaviour?
4. Why couldn't have controlled yourself?
5. Do you feel any remorse?

My feeling is that you're not the only person in the world who has issues.

Teachers are there to teach, I wish students would realise that before they throw their dolls out of the pram.

1. 12 when it started
2. Nope, I wasn't misbehaving to impress anyone
3. I assume so, I wasn't told that there were though
4. Because I was 12, and at that point in time I didn't really care about school and all I could think about was what was happening at home.
5. Yes, I have since apologised to all the teachers that I have seen since and quite a few of the other students.

I'm aware that I probably wasn't the only person with problems, but at the time I didn't have the emotional maturity to deal with it properly.

Yes, teachers are primarily there to teach, but some children for whatever reason don't want to learn. So at that point we have to ask ourselves do we either give up on them, or help them.

[Iron Lady]

(Original post by DaveSmith99)
1. 12 when it started
2. Nope, I wasn't misbehaving to impress anyone
3. I assume so, I wasn't told that there were though
4. Because I was 12, and at that point in time I didn't really care about school and all I could think about was what was happening at home.
5. Yes, I have since apologised to all the teachers that I have seen since and quite a few of the other students.

I'm aware that I probably wasn't the only person with problems, but at the time I didn't have the emotional maturity to deal with it properly.

Yes, teachers are primarily there to teach, but some children for whatever reason don't want to learn. So at that point we have to ask ourselves do we either give up on them, or help them.

Were there any school counsellors or your GP who could have helped?

School = a place for learning. Not to use teachers as a punchbag.

[DaveSmith99]

(Original post by Iron Lady)
Were there any school counsellors or your GP who could have helped?

School = a place for learning. Not to use teachers as a punchbag.

Nope, we didn't have any school counsellors, and I never went to my GP or anyone else. I wasn't mature enough to sit down, look at my behaviour, look at what was happening in my life and realise that I needed help.

[Iron Lady]

(Original post by DaveSmith99)
Nope, we didn't have any school counsellors, and I never went to my GP or anyone else. I wasn't mature enough to sit down, look at my behaviour, look at what was happening in my life and realise that I needed help.

At least you corrected your behaviour at some point down the line.

I apologise if I came across as intrusive.

[DaveSmith99]

(Original post by Iron Lady)
At least you corrected your behaviour at some point down the line.

I apologise if I came across as intrusive.

Yep, and I believe that given the right help and support the majority of difficult kids can do the same.

Don't worry, you weren't intrusive, if I wasn't comfortable talking about it I wouldn't have brought it up

[Jones8180]

Private schools are ALWAYS better than mainstream schools! NO way would I EVER even contemplate sending my children to a mainstream school - private education all the way! (y)

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-N7000

[R583]

Private schools are better simply because some people have more money than others. It's like some better have bigger houses or better clothes. I hate to say this, but at any state school you can achieve the highest grades - it's not impossible. The oxbridge issue is something that does need to be fixed, but I think it'll soon sort itself out, because more and more state students are getting places and unis are realising that it's unfair.

This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I9003

[Miracle Day]

An estimated £18billion a year is lost due to our richest companies avoiding tax. By contrast, benefit fraud costs the UK £1.5billion.

Let's put an end to this and then we can fund creating new schools so there's less people per class!

[im so academic]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
An estimated £18billion a year is lost due to our richest companies avoiding tax. By contrast, benefit fraud costs the UK £1.5billion.

Let's put an end to this and then we can fund creating new schools so there's less people per class!

Where are you going to get the teachers from?

[DaveSmith99]

(Original post by im so academic)
Where are you going to get the teachers from?

Pay teachers more so teaching becomes a more attractive career choice, this will attract more talented people as well.

[im so academic]

(Original post by DaveSmith99)
Pay teachers more so teaching becomes a more attractive career choice, this will attract more talented people as well.

Where are you going to get the money from exactly?

[DaveSmith99]

(Original post by im so academic)
Where are you going to get the money from exactly?

Well personally I would like to see top rate income tax increased, the closure of tax avoidance systems, legalisation and taxation of drugs, and a cut in the military budget among other things.

[im so academic]

(Original post by DaveSmith99)
Well personally I would like to see top rate income tax increased, the closure of tax avoidance systems, legalisation and taxation of drugs, and a cut in the military budget among other things.

1. By what percentage? How much would this generate? Who's to say top rate earners would stay in this country?

2. How will you close tax avoidance systems?

3. How much will the legalisation and taxation of drugs make for the government? What drugs? All drugs? What if the bill is not passed for it?

4. By how much will you cut the military budget?