Why is it fair for people with money to get a better education than me?
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I agree with the above poster, we should bring back the grammar schools.
Yes it's harsh and sometimes a cruel process but it's far fairer than what we have now.
It would also provide the sort of social mobility, now missing from our society, that many Labour politicians, like Gordon Brown, were able to take advantage of.
Gordon Brown is a good example of someone, from poor beginnings, plucked age eleven and sent to a nice grammar school with all the other hard working, well behaved, kids.
Saved from years of violent bullying you just know a personality like his would have attracted in spades down at the secondary modern.
Even in the land of social democracy, Germany, they have a selective education system with no pretence of it being the slightest bit comprehensive.
Of course, this glaringly obvious, elephant in the room, alternative educational approach was completely off topic down at the BBC, as if it didn’t even exist, in their impartial and balanced piece of work.
The status quo left unchallenged is in the end just a form of in house propaganda.
Yes it's harsh and sometimes a cruel process but it's far fairer than what we have now.
It would also provide the sort of social mobility, now missing from our society, that many Labour politicians, like Gordon Brown, were able to take advantage of.
Gordon Brown is a good example of someone, from poor beginnings, plucked age eleven and sent to a nice grammar school with all the other hard working, well behaved, kids.
Saved from years of violent bullying you just know a personality like his would have attracted in spades down at the secondary modern.
Even in the land of social democracy, Germany, they have a selective education system with no pretence of it being the slightest bit comprehensive.
Of course, this glaringly obvious, elephant in the room, alternative educational approach was completely off topic down at the BBC, as if it didn’t even exist, in their impartial and balanced piece of work.
The status quo left unchallenged is in the end just a form of in house propaganda.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Miracle Day
The title is more of a crowd drawer than my actual opinion, I'm still undecided on the 'private school issue' but I'm prepared to swing either way so convince me otherwise TSR.
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinion here are some facts taken from the BBC.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinion here are some facts taken from the BBC.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
Also no point complaining if you're not that studious or intelligent or hardworking. Fail to prepare then prepare to fail. o point crying about it here on TSR that won't change anything. The 15 minutes or so you wasted here you could have been studying extra or whatever. If you really want something you have to work for it. And if that isn't enough work harder. Nothing is impossible if you're dedicated and determined to succeed but if you're going to be oh so negative and wallow in self-pity then don't be surprised when everyone else passes you by in the career and pay stakes.
Sure you quote some facts there from the BBC but so what? Does that mean you're going to accept that and sit back and be satisfied with the position you're in or does it burn that passion deep inside you to go on and work and study harder and get to where you want to be?
Original post by Dalek1099
You are right it is not fair and Private School should be banned so everyone has the same advantage and you will also find the proportion of students in oxbridge,is higher than it should be based,on the people who went to private school.I have also found that intelligence,isn't largely based on genetic factors but more environmental factors,my parents aren't very intelligent.
Why stop there why don't we take away luxurious items from the rich as well seen as though it isn't fair.
Also oxbridge applicant from private schools are higher than they should be? Why what should they be? Should we start positively discriminating against the rich?
Original post by . .
Why stop there why don't we take away luxurious items from the rich as well seen as though it isn't fair.
Also oxbridge applicant from private schools are higher than they should be? Why what should they be? Should we start positively discriminating against the rich?
Also oxbridge applicant from private schools are higher than they should be? Why what should they be? Should we start positively discriminating against the rich?
8%or roughly that number,its significantly higher than that.I want democracy and no children deserve,to have a better/worse chance to learn because of their backgrounds.
Not everyone who goes to a private school is there because they can afford to pay for it. Some people can't, but get scholarships, though this is difficult with the number of people that apply. I used to go to a state school for primary, but now go to a private one for secondary. Generally private schools do have a better learning environment because parents are paying so pupils want to learn more and also because these parents are more likely to be educated and so will push their children more. However that doesn't always mean that the teachers are better, though many of them are more dedicated than those at state schools. Most people at my school (which is not a posh school
) care about their studies so achieve better grades. The teachers push us more and As and A*s are not too uncommon. Another thing is that many private schools have an entrance exam so you have to be a bit clever to get in. I also agree that grammar schools would be a good idea as then you could be from any background and get a good education.
) care about their studies so achieve better grades. The teachers push us more and As and A*s are not too uncommon. Another thing is that many private schools have an entrance exam so you have to be a bit clever to get in. I also agree that grammar schools would be a good idea as then you could be from any background and get a good education.(edited 11 years ago)
Dan le sac - Whether you have, or have not wealth - the system might fail you but don't fail yourself!
I went to a state school, I was ridiculously intelligent when I went in, I sat entrance exams for local private schools and got pretty hefty scholarships but couldn't afford even the uniform. I was left to my own devices throughout my time there. They figured I would get my 5 GCSE's and make up 0.1% of the 37% that get them there, they didn't need to get me the 10 A*'s that I wanted. I got bored. And my results suffered. The problem in my opinion with the comprehensive system is that no one thinks "hang on, this school has an intake of clever kids, why aren't they coming out with high results?", the rankings system doesn't challenge them.
I wish I could have afforded to get into private school but I couldn't. I had to make the best of it, and sure I got in shed loads of trouble for ignoring my teachers and doing my own work, but I did it, and I got mediocre results (for me).
I wish I could have afforded to get into private school but I couldn't. I had to make the best of it, and sure I got in shed loads of trouble for ignoring my teachers and doing my own work, but I did it, and I got mediocre results (for me).
Original post by Dalek1099
8%or roughly that number,its significantly higher than that.I want democracy and no children deserve,to have a better/worse chance to learn because of their backgrounds.
My mum is illiterate and dad is self employed and earns less than £15k a year. I live in one of the worst parts of my town. I go to a private school and my fees are paid for via a scholarship and bursary so no I was not denied the chance to learn because of my background.
University should admit applicant based on academic ability and potential not because they have to admit 96% from state schools because it's unfair.
Original post by Charwas
it is not fair, but nor is the world we live in.
That doesn't mean we can't make it so, or at least try to.
Original post by The Socktor
That doesn't mean we can't make it so, or at least try to.
It doesn't, but the OP's idea at how to change it is the wrong one.
Original post by Miracle Day
The title is more of a crowd drawer than my actual opinion, I'm still undecided on the 'private school issue' but I'm prepared to swing either way so convince me otherwise TSR.
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinion here are some facts taken from the BBC.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
I was just speaking to a girl who told me she wants to do Law in KCL, and she told me her brother got 12 A*s and she got 8 A*s. Me and my brothers went to state schools and I never got a single A*, one had mostly Cs and one had mostly Ds. So I've done much better than my brothers.
At first I thought wow for both to get such good grades they must have really good parents. But then I decided to ask "Do you go to a private school or state school?" She answered "Private school."
For both to have done so well having gone to a private school, I'm assuming this a common thing? Where as my school is a band 1 state school (Top band) and the highest achieved grade was 11 A* and 1 A, the second was 7A* and it went down from there out of 200 people. My GCSEs were considered well above average for my school. I can't however apply to the top Universities because my GCSEs aren't as good compared to, say, people on TSR and I am a hard worker.
So why is it that people who go to private schools get better grades? Why is their standard of education so high and why can't teachers in state schools copy it?
I'm just wondering, so discuss.
Oh, and I don't think there are welsh private schools are there?
Before anyone tries telling me their own opinion here are some facts taken from the BBC.
8% of Children go to private schools, 92% go to state schools.
More than half of all students in Private schools come out with A or A* GCSE grades.
38% of all children getting three As or better at A-level are from Private schools.
There are Welsh private schools (Rougemont, St John's college etc.), I live near a few. I don't think that there are as many though compared to in England as it's mainly state schools here.
I think my grades would've been a lot better if I had gone to a private school. A few girls from the nearby private school have moved to my school's sixth form now, I'm not sure whether or not they did well there, but they aren't doing too great here at the moment.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Ry_p94
IMAGINE THAT?! How dare they demand that they be taught in school, it's not as if they devote 6 hours a day to it for 11 years.
I agree that self teaching is vital for the top grades, but it's something most state school students are extremely unlikely to do. This isn't because they are lazy, but because they've never been given the motivation / knowledge that it's necessary (+ they're often less ambitious due to teachers and parents). Most privately educated students will have financially successful parents, who will make it clear how important universities and grades are. I'm generalising here of course, as there are plenty of state school students who find the motivation to self teach themselves, but they are in the minority unfortunately.
I agree that self teaching is vital for the top grades, but it's something most state school students are extremely unlikely to do. This isn't because they are lazy, but because they've never been given the motivation / knowledge that it's necessary (+ they're often less ambitious due to teachers and parents). Most privately educated students will have financially successful parents, who will make it clear how important universities and grades are. I'm generalising here of course, as there are plenty of state school students who find the motivation to self teach themselves, but they are in the minority unfortunately.
Of course they should demand it but if they are aware that teaching themselves and a lot of studying done on their own behalfs will pay off dividends in the future, then they should also be willing to sacrifice more than 6 hours a day while they are in Education if they know that the added time they spend teaching themselves what they need to know will one day bring to them the opportunity to earn a good wage and live a good life.
I agree with you about the lack of motivation being a defining argument as to why some kids don't do well but the point of the thread and my post was to simply try and ascertain why the impact of the schools themselves are so widely looked into, when their relevance isn't as profound as a lot of people will have you believe (people who didn't work hard, ignorant/uninformed people). But that's up to the parents but i will say this; my mom tried really hard to instill in me the values of hard work when i was doing my GCSES but tbh i just didn't give a **** and spent most of my time either out with my mates or just down my local youth club playing football. I was intelligent enough to do well and could have acheived a lot more but a combination of my friends just not giving a damn and my school not emphasising the importance of GCSES just made me not really try and i'm sure that this is the case for a lot of teens today. I'm lucky in that my college demanded that i got a B in maths so i worked my ass off because of that requirement and got the grade, but if they hadn't stipulated that i needed a B to pass, i hate to say that i really wouldn't have tried that hard and would have most likely passed with an average C.
I guess my point is that i needed an incentive to do well and i'm sure others do, but the counter arguement to helping find and advertise incentives for teens is that they shouldn't have as there should be a natural desire to do well.
It's a tricky one i wont lie. I knew i wanted money and wanted to do well in life but just didn't appreciate how it would happen, so i guess it's not really my fault as it is the fault of those who were meant to inform me on the importance of my studies then.
Original post by im so academic
No, it's not fair, but what do you propose? Scrapping private schools? That will never happen.
It's already been done in Finland... which incidentally has one of the best education systems on the planet.
I go to an extremely good state school. The standard of education, trips and extra curricular activities are excellent. We have had visits from Sir Ian McKellen, One Direction to name a few. Robert Pattinson and Catherine Tate came a few years ago to film a film.
We have pupils from all backgrounds, but mostly middle to upper middle class pupils.
Despite this, in general, the mostly working class disruptive ones still only get bad to slightly below average grades.
The quality of teaching does obviously, raise grades but if the pupil has not been brought up well and is unwilling to learn, a good education will still not provide the incentive to achieve. Privately educated kids nearly always have had a good upbringing, so will benefit from good education. Disruptive kids will not.
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
We have pupils from all backgrounds, but mostly middle to upper middle class pupils.
Despite this, in general, the mostly working class disruptive ones still only get bad to slightly below average grades.
The quality of teaching does obviously, raise grades but if the pupil has not been brought up well and is unwilling to learn, a good education will still not provide the incentive to achieve. Privately educated kids nearly always have had a good upbringing, so will benefit from good education. Disruptive kids will not.
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
Why is it fair that we live in a country that provides a free education system, while many of the world lives below the poverty line?
Life isn't fair. In perspective, the injustice of private schooling is minimal.
Life isn't fair. In perspective, the injustice of private schooling is minimal.
Original post by The Socktor
It's already been done in Finland... which incidentally has one of the best education systems on the planet.
Not in the UK it won't. Finland is a totally different country compared to the UK.
I think it's probably the fact that because they're at a private school, it's being paid for so their parents make them feel like they have to work themselves stupid to make it worth it. Also, I'm guessing most private schools are boarding schools and don't they have evening study sessions and things? So whereas we can come home and switch off and go on the PS3 or whatever, they have to keep working for longer.
I don't think there's any correlation between wealth and intelligence, as shown by the amount of both working and middle/upper class teenagers during the riots.
I don't think there's any correlation between wealth and intelligence, as shown by the amount of both working and middle/upper class teenagers during the riots.
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