Confused

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  1. sabre2th1's Avatar
    • Exalted and Worshipped Member
    • Location: Southampton
    • Posts: 1,048
    Confused
    So I am majorly confused atm..

    If you have:

    1) -ln|1-x| + ln|3+x|2, then you could use the rule to get:

    -ln|(1-x)(3+x)2| right?

    but if you re-arrange 1) to get ln|3+x|2 - ln|1-x|, then wouldn't you be able to get:

    ln|(3+x)2/(1-x)|
  2. raheem94's Avatar
    • TSR Demigod
    • Posts: 5,512
    Re: Confused
    (Original post by sabre2th1)
    So I am majorly confused atm..

    If you have:

    1) -ln|1-x| + ln|3+x|2, then you could use the rule to get:

    -ln|(1-x)(3+x)2| right?

    but if you re-arrange 1) to get ln|3+x|2 - ln|1-x|, then wouldn't you be able to get:

    ln|(3+x)2/(1-x)|
    Is this your first equation  \boxed{- \ln |1-x| + \ln |3+x|^2 } \ ?

    Is there really a minus sign at the start?

    If this is the equation, then you do the following,

     \displaystyle \ln |3+x|^2 - \ln |1-x| = \ln \left| \frac{(3+x)^2}{1-x} \right|
    Last edited by raheem94; 12-06-2012 at 00:00.
  3. sabre2th1's Avatar
    • Exalted and Worshipped Member
    • Location: Southampton
    • Posts: 1,048
    Re: Confused
    (Original post by raheem94)
    ..
    Yep, that is correct, there is a minus sign at the start..

    So why can't I get:

    -ln|(1-x)(3+x)2| ?

    Thanks
  4. Lord of the Flies's Avatar
    • Location: Paris, France
    Re: Confused
    (Original post by sabre2th1)
    So I am majorly confused atm..

    If you have:

    -\ln|1-x| + \ln|3+x|^2, then you could use the rule to get:

    -\ln|(1-x)(3+x)^2| right?
    Nope. The rule is \ln a+\ln b=\ln(ab)\quad(a,b>0). Or equivalently -\ln a-\ln b=-\ln(ab)

    Not -\ln a+\ln b=\ln(ab). Remember, a sum has no particular order, therefore -\ln a+\ln b=\ln b - \ln a
    Last edited by Lord of the Flies; 12-06-2012 at 00:34.
  5. sabre2th1's Avatar
    • Exalted and Worshipped Member
    • Location: Southampton
    • Posts: 1,048
    Re: Confused
    (Original post by Lord of the Flies)
    Nope. The rule is \ln a+\ln b=\ln(ab)\quad(a,b>0)

    Not -\ln a+\ln b=\ln(ab). Remember, a sum has no particular order, therefore -\ln a+\ln b=\ln b - \ln a
    Ah THANKS a lot ! Would the (a,b > 0) also apply when you are doing
    ln a- ln b = ln a/b ?
  6. Lord of the Flies's Avatar
    • Location: Paris, France
    Re: Confused
    (Original post by sabre2th1)
    Ah THANKS a lot ! Would the (a,b > 0) also apply when you are doing
    ln a- ln b = ln a/b ?
    Of course - for real numbers \ln is only defined for x>0. So whatever is in the logarithm must always be positive, hence the use of absolute values.

    If a\leq 0 either you have made a mistake, or you conclude the expression is undefined therefore [...], or you forgot to write it \ln|a|, or you are working outside of the real numbers...
    Last edited by Lord of the Flies; 12-06-2012 at 00:42.
  7. sabre2th1's Avatar
    • Exalted and Worshipped Member
    • Location: Southampton
    • Posts: 1,048
    Re: Confused
    (Original post by Lord of the Flies)
    Of course - for real numbers \ln is only defined for x>0. So whatever is in the logarithm must always be positive, hence the use of absolute values.

    If a\leq 0 either you have made a mistake, or you conclude the expression is undefined therefore [...], or you forgot to write it \ln|a|, or you are working outside of the real numbers...
    I understand! Thanks a lot
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