p or d orbital fill up first?
Chemistry discussion, revision, exam and homework help.
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?this is a level right? not degree?(Original post by Cleoleo)
for the config of Cu2+, I thought it'd be 3s2 3d9 then 3p6 as it goes from left to right
But mark scheme says 3p6 before 3d9 so I'm a bit confused :/
Thanks
the order of fillings i 1s 2s 2p 3s 3p 4s 3d 4p.
at degree level when we go higher than 4p its a bit different and depends on compound status and oxidation state so i hope for your sake its a levels cos i cant explain that
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?alevel(Original post by alex5455)
this is a level right? not degree?
the order of fillings i 1s 2s 2p 3s 3p 4s 3d 4p.
at degree level when we go higher than 4p its a bit different and depends on compound status and oxidation state so i hope for your sake its a levels cos i cant explain that
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?oh good i know that one haha, well s always fills before p but in the case of 3d and 4s 4s fills first except in the exception cases where 4s is full and the configuration would be 4s2 3d9 it then becomes 4s1 3d10 to give the highest energy level all paired spins to be lower energy i think that might be chromium or copper 3 -
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?Ohhh okay but why do the p orbitals fill before the d oribitals?(Original post by alex5455)
oh good i know that one haha, well s always fills before p but in the case of 3d and 4s 4s fills first except in the exception cases where 4s is full and the configuration would be 4s2 3d9 it then becomes 4s1 3d10 to give the highest energy level all paired spins to be lower energy i think that might be chromium or copper 3 -
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?they are lower energy, the closer an electron is to the nucleus the lower energy it is(Original post by Cleoleo)
Ohhh okay but why do the p orbitals fill before the d oribitals? -
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?http://www.ptable.com/, use the orbitals tab at the top for the demonstration
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?no 3d is higher energy except in certain compounds and for a level chemistry it really doesnt matter(Original post by word2yamother)
Thats generally true but not always the case though as the 4s orbital is closer to the nucleus than the 3d orbital yet the 3d is lower in energy than 4s. Other factors such as how well the electrons are shielded from the nuclear charge have an effect. Jus sayinLast edited by alex5455; 12-06-2012 at 02:00. -
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?whats the degree stuff?(Original post by alex5455)
oh good i know that one haha, well s always fills before p but in the case of 3d and 4s 4s fills first except in the exception cases where 4s is full and the configuration would be 4s2 3d9 it then becomes 4s1 3d10 to give the highest energy level all paired spins to be lower energy i think that might be chromium or copper 3 -
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?too difficult and will take far too much time to type out, google crystal field splitting theory and complex ligand theory(Original post by AishaTara)
whats the degree stuff? -
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?ohh :/ if its hard then i wont bother(Original post by alex5455)
too difficult and will take far too much time to type out, google crystal field splitting theory and complex ligand theory -
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?Nope, unless by 'certain compounds' you mean pretty much all first row transition metal compounds! The energy of the 3d and 4s orbitals varies depending on the occupancies of the other.(Original post by alex5455)
no 3d is higher energy except in certain compounds and for a level chemistry it really doesnt matter
When they're both empty the 4s is lower in energy, so is filled first. As the d orbitals get filled, they are able to shield the 4s and so the 4s is raised in energy, and hence when full the 4s is higher in energy.
When it comes to removing electrons, the higher energy 4s ones are lost first as because the 4s shields the 3d, removal of a 4s electron means that the 3d electrons experience an increased Zeff, forming the more stable cation. -
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Re: p or d orbital fill up first?i phrased what i meant wrong i said compunds i meant elements ive just realised i had been taking myself at my word and thinking that looks weird for a while then, silly mistake, however thats not relevant to a level chemistry, which is what i was helping with,at degree you need to know that, im not even sure if you need to know compounds of transitions at a level but i do know you have to fill 4s first except in copper and zinc when you either fill the d or pair the spins in d(Original post by illusionz)
Nope, unless by 'certain compounds' you mean pretty much all first row transition metal compounds! The energy of the 3d and 4s orbitals varies depending on the occupancies of the other.
When they're both empty the 4s is lower in energy, so is filled first. As the d orbitals get filled, they are able to shield the 4s and so the 4s is raised in energy, and hence when full the 4s is higher in energy.
When it comes to removing electrons, the higher energy 4s ones are lost first as because the 4s shields the 3d, removal of a 4s electron means that the 3d electrons experience an increased Zeff, forming the more stable cation.
