[Danielle89]

(Original post by firestar101)
Do you think it will get worse over the coming years, as in that less people will jobs on completion of their pre-reg.

Unless more pharmacies open then yeah, it'll get worse. Just like any area/field of work - it's put out there that there's a shortage, so everyone rushes to do the degree, and before you know it we're at saturation point. I seem to remember hearing the same thing about primary school teaching...

[firestar101]

(Original post by Danielle89)
Unless more pharmacies open then yeah, it'll get worse. Just like any area/field of work - it's put out there that there's a shortage, so everyone rushes to do the degree, and before you know it we're at saturation point. I seem to remember hearing the same thing about primary school teaching...

I've always thought of moving abroad, but the situation is quite bad everywhere.

This thread is seriously depressing. Makes me feel like giving up and just doing nothing.

[aspirinpharmacist]

(Original post by firestar101)
I've always thought of moving abroad, but the situation is quite bad everywhere.

This thread is seriously depressing. Makes me feel like giving up and just doing nothing.

If everyone thought like that we never would have made it out of the Depression. But we did.

[Collider]

I must say this is an interesting thread. I am practising community pharmacist in Ireland and the situation here is mirrored to the UK's. Oversupply of domestic graduates (which is set to increase), foreign graduates, the domination of large chain stores and severe reductions in government fees have wrought a sizeable toll on what was once a sought after profession.
Wages/rates have dropped anywhere from 30-50% and continue to fall. I actually think the problem with pharmacy is much more fundamental than supply and demand, the conventional skillset of the pharmacist is becoming increasingly irrelevant in the 21st century. I've been researching how the profession is developing in other regions and it seems to have many parallels with this thread:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum....cfm?t=1514268

http://forums.sdn.net/showthread.php?t=639184

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/phar...ket/t264349/p7

Not trying to be overly pessimistic but it's important to have all the facts to hand when making a career choice whether you're a school leaver or returning to education.

[Alley23]

In the context of 'too many applicants applying for pre-registration places' , is it caused by location choice? By that I mean as in many students are applying to the same place (more 'lively' city like London or so) to undertake their training programme? Or is it just the whole of UK?

[ScoobyB4]

In terms of "alternatives" I have a few friends who have come out with MEng, Bsc Physics etc and have gone into the accountancy route via the graduate schemes in the big 4 houses. I just checked out a few of the graduate vacancies at KPMG, EY etc and they are not too bad to be honest, they dont really discriminate against degrees and most of the entry requirements is based around A Level grades (around or over 300 UCAS points being the requirement). Based on your choice, e.g if one was to go in public sector audit, they would probably put you through a ACA/CA or ICAEW course for three years. It is quite cut throat though, as if you fail too many exams then your out the door. A possible alternative for those who asked perhaps?

[Hoganballs]

Pharmacy is a waste of f**king time. If you do manage to get a job (and that's a big if) you'll be worked to within an inch of your life in one of the Multiple's sweat shops, without a lunch break in the entire day. Do not study Pharmacy.

[t0ffee]

Or the situation might improve in 3-5 years time, by which time any first year college student thinking about applying for pharmacy will have graduated.

[Wild Horses]

(Original post by t0ffee)
Or the situation might improve in 3-5 years time, by which time any first year college student thinking about applying for pharmacy will have graduated.

i like ur thinking

[aspirinpharmacist]

(Original post by t0ffee)
Or the situation might improve in 3-5 years time, by which time any first year college student thinking about applying for pharmacy will have graduated.

My thoughts exactly. Look how different the world was four years ago! When I was 13 I did not expect to be paying £9000 a year for uni. Did not see that coming.

[James A]

(Original post by t0ffee)
Or the situation might improve in 3-5 years time, by which time any first year college student thinking about applying for pharmacy will have graduated.

Indeed, there's always a flip side to the coin....

[Pharm Boy]

(Original post by aspirinpharmacist)
My thoughts exactly. Look how different the world was four years ago! When I was 13 I did not expect to be paying £9000 a year for uni. Did not see that coming.

You must really like East Anglia/want to get out of Scotland to be paying £36,000 when you could have free tuition fees.

[aspirinpharmacist]

(Original post by Pharm Boy)
You must really like East Anglia/want to get out of Scotland to be paying £36,000 when you could have free tuition fees.

You have no idea how much. I love East Anglia. I want to marry the place. It would've been so much simpler to fall in love with Strathclyde or RGU. I actually liked RGU, but I think I'd be frustrated staying in Aberdeen. Lived here for long enough, time for somewhere new.

[ScoobyB4]

(Original post by aspirinpharmacist)
You have no idea how much. I love East Anglia. I want to marry the place. It would've been so much simpler to fall in love with Strathclyde or RGU. I actually liked RGU, but I think I'd be frustrated staying in Aberdeen. Lived here for long enough, time for somewhere new.

Hey, if your in Aberdeen, chase that oil money man! Go for a scholarship with CNR or someone to get that MEng in Petroleum Engineering and earn that tax free petrol dollars

[aspirinpharmacist]

(Original post by ScoobyB4)
Hey, if your in Aberdeen, chase that oil money man! Go for a scholarship with CNR or someone to get that MEng in Petroleum Engineering and earn that tax free petrol dollars

NO! NOT ENGINEERING! Every man, woman, their children, their dogs, their guinea pigs, their budgies and their hamsters are some kind of engineer in this city. Fact.

I'm not saying Engineering is a bad career, but I'm awful at physics.

[Mischo91]

(Original post by Medic1992)
True. My friend from Aston only doing pharmacy just to get into graduate dentistry.

How does that happen..? which uni lets you do that??

[StrawberryKoi]

(Original post by Mischo91)
How does that happen..? which uni lets you do that??

I'm pretty sure I know the guy in question. Quite a few universities offer graduate entry to dentistry. I think he's going to apply to one of those once he completes his MPharm degree.

"Graduate Entry Courses
Five dental schools offer four-year accelerated degrees for graduates who hold a degree (at least at upper-second class level) with a large element of biology and chemistry. Graduates with a degree in biomedical science may also be considered.
Barts and the London
King's College London
Peninsula College of Medicine and Dentistry
University of Central Lancashire
University of Liverpool"

Source (albeit a little outdated): http://www.dentalschoolscouncil.ac.u...al_schools.htm

[jemima7]

(Original post by college80)
Pre - reg places are getting very difficult to come by now with companies rejecting students on the basis of 'overwhelmingly this year too many applicants, applying for pre-reg' there are simply too many applicants per pre reg places avaialable and too many pharmacists per job either in hospital or community (there simply are not enough jobs to go round in community and hospital to cater for all the qualified pharmacists right now...can you imagine things a few years down the line?)

The pharmacy board/society probably saw this coming a few years ago and as they cannot cap student numbers (unlike Dentristy and Medicine can) they cannot do much about it. It looks like 4 years of intense study and then no job for pharmacy students. Other sectors of pharmacy will have few jobs as it is and the situation is getting bleak now, let alone by the time students qualify in a few years.

This once secure healthcare job is now entering intense saturation territory and students should think long and hard about studying. Of course if pharmacy student capping was introduced this would not have happened but we still have new pharmacy schools opening next year...one shudders to think what effect that will have on an already bleak situation. Dentistry and Medicine will not allow new schools to open like this as they want to control their workforce and hence ensure secure job employment. Unfortunately the pharmacy profession does not have the power to do this. New schools of pharmacy can keep on opening and bring in lots of money for universities.

Pharmacists themselves are very worried about the situation and are urging students to save their money and time as forget 4 years down the line, here and now is getting very difficult.

Yes we can talk about no course guarantees jobs etc but pharmacy is heading towards the historical 90% job prospect rate to a 40% job prospect rate, that is even lower than those already saturarted job/course markets.

Things have changed dramatically since 5 years ago.

I agree that job opportunities in community pharmacy are few and far between but surely you can skip the pre-reg and do a post-grad in something else or Research PhD. A degree in pharmacy does not necessarily have to lead to a career in community or hospital pharmacy. What about pharmaceutical companies? Surely the pharmaceutical industry will continue to grow as demand for drugs increases. If pharmacy is something a person is passionate about should they not study it anyway? Seems to me there are plenty of options for a pharmacy graduate if they keep an open mind. The situation is bad out there for many graduates with different degrees. Do correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% knowledgeable on the subject as I am only about to begin a pharmacy degree next month. I would like to hear your opinion on what I have said above.

[Wild Horses]

(Original post by jemima7)
I agree that job opportunities in community pharmacy are few and far between but surely you can skip the pre-reg and do a post-grad in something else or Research PhD. A degree in pharmacy does not necessarily have to lead to a career in community or hospital pharmacy. What about pharmaceutical companies? Surely the pharmaceutical industry will continue to grow as demand for drugs increases. If pharmacy is something a person is passionate about should they not study it anyway? Seems to me there are plenty of options for a pharmacy graduate if they keep an open mind. The situation is bad out there for many graduates with different degrees. Do correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% knowledgeable on the subject as I am only about to begin a pharmacy degree next month. I would like to hear your opinion on what I have said above.

very thoughtful

[degreeny]

As a third year student, I agree with you Jemima7. Also, if when I graduate I can't get a job, I plan to go to the USA where there are many many pharmacist jobs - something like 80,000 or so. They also get paid twice what UK pharmacists do, usually more, obviously it isn't about the money, but if you're having to relocate - it's a nice bonus!