[.eXe]

(Original post by Christianlady)
~

In the future, just post the verse name and number. I find it highly irritating that you post entire chapters here. I have a bible right next to me, I prefer to go find them myself.

Secondly, I don't know what has confused you. Jesus is God and thus you cannot attribute the same connections as humans to him.

For example, yes you're right that Peter was a Jew who was then converted to Christianity. But the same cannot be said of Jesus...Jesus did not convert from judaism...because in my belief...Jesus was NOT a Jew.

I don't believe you can assign a faith to God. It is self contradictory...God is God...how can you possibly say that God follows a certain faith?

It is from God that faith comes from. God cannot abide or follow a certain faith. But you seem to be claiming this and it is quite misleading and just blatantly untrue.

The point I made earlier about your arguments being self-contradictory was to illustrate that if you assign a religious affiliation to God, it then becomes self-defeating.

Tell me if you agree with this:

A Jew is not a Christian
A Jew is still in sin and must accept Christ in order to receive forgiveness
A Jew will live and die in sin and will not receive forgiveness unless he repents and accepts Jesus.

If you agree with the above (as I am 100% sure you will), then how can you cal Jesus a Jew in light of those above statements?

It's absolutely wrong to do so!

[Christianlady]

(Original post by .eXe)
In the future, just post the verse name and number. I find it highly irritating that you post entire chapters here. I have a bible right next to me, I prefer to go find them myself.

Hello eXe,

First of all, I didn't post entire chapters. I am glad that you have a Bible right next to you. Reading and studying the Bible, asking God for help to understand through His Spirit, is very important.

Secondly, I don't know what has confused you. Jesus is God and thus you cannot attribute the same connections as humans to him.

Do you believe Jesus is God incarnate, or God not human at all?

For example, yes you're right that Peter was a Jew who was then converted to Christianity. But the same cannot be said of Jesus...Jesus did not convert from judaism...because in my belief...Jesus was NOT a Jew.

Peter stayed Jewish... a person can be Jewish and be an Atheist, as well as a person can be Jewish and be Christian...

Do you deny that Jesus is the son of David?

I don't believe you can assign a faith to God. It is self contradictory...God is God...how can you possibly say that God follows a certain faith?

Exactly. God does not follow a certain faith. Where did I write that God follows a certain faith please.

It is from God that faith comes from. God cannot abide or follow a certain faith. But you seem to be claiming this and it is quite misleading and just blatantly untrue.

Please quote where I seem to be claiming this? Thank you.

The point I made earlier about your arguments being self-contradictory was to illustrate that if you assign a religious affiliation to God, it then becomes self-defeating.

Tell me if you agree with this:

A Jew is not a Christian

A Jewish person can be a Christian, a Jewish Orthodox, Reform Judaism, a Muslim, an Atheist, an Agnostic, a Buddhist... whatever he/she decides... same as a Gentile (though Gentiles are to study before becoming Jewish Orthodox...).

A Jew is still in sin and must accept Christ in order to receive forgiveness

Any person, whether Jew or Gentile, sins. Jesus says that he is the way, the truth, and the life - the way to the Father is through him (John 14:6) and all those who believe in him will never die (John 11:26 -the second death)

A Jew will live and die in sin and will not receive forgiveness unless he repents and accepts Jesus.

God is Judge, and God knows each persons' heart, both Jews and Gentiles.

If you agree with the above (as I am 100% sure you will), then how can you cal Jesus a Jew in light of those above statements?

It's absolutely wrong to do so!

Well, now I understand a little bit better how Gentile Christians have gone so far away from the foundation. What is horrible is that some went farther than you, not only denying Jesus being Jewish, but actually persecuting Jewish people who did not accept Jesus as the Messiah or God. Now I understand better why the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the Holocaust happened. Sadly, these Gentile "Christians" who hated Jews obviously did not obey Jesus' teachings to love their enemies, nor did they see Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, who his Jewish followers believed him to be.

May God help people understand the importance of the foundation, which Jesus did not abolish, but rather fulfills (according to what people who believe what Jesus said and did is true) - Matthew 5:17-20

Peace and God bless you

[.eXe]

(Original post by Christianlady)
~

Now I see why others hate arguing with you. You come across are quite irritating and only believe in your own perceptions, without objectively considering other people's rationales.

What you are saying is flawed but if you want to continue believing it, there is not much more I can do.

i am not very eloquent in speech but anyone who reads out past few posts will see exactly what I am talking about and why it logically makes sense.

Also, please don't refer to us disdainfully as "gentile Christians" as if you are some higher form of a Christian than the rest. That's quite obnoxious of you.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by .eXe)
Now I see why others hate arguing with you. You come across are quite irritating and only believe in your own perceptions, without objectively considering other people's rationales.

What you are saying is flawed but if you want to continue believing it, there is not much more I can do.

i am not very eloquent in speech but anyone who reads out past few posts will see exactly what I am talking about and why it logically makes sense.

Also, please don't refer to us disdainfully as "gentile Christians" as if you are some higher form of a Christian than the rest. That's quite obnoxious of you.

Hello eXe,

I am a Gentile Christian, and it does shame me that Gentile "Christians' have been guilty of persecuting and killing Jewish people. As for your personal attacks on me, Jesus says to pray for your enemies. If you consider me to be your enemy, why not pray for me?

I consider you to be my brother in Christ, but if you do not consider me your sister in Christ, that is between you and God.

Peace and God bless you

[.eXe]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Hello eXe,

I am a Gentile Christian, and it does shame me that Gentile "Christians' have been guilty of persecuting and killing Jewish people. As for your personal attacks on me, Jesus says to pray for your enemies. If you consider me to be your enemy, why not pray for me?

I consider you to be my brother in Christ, but if you do not consider me your sister in Christ, that is between you and God.

Peace and God bless you

That's all very well and good and forgive me for being rather rash, but that's just my personality. If you have seen my posts on TSR, then you already know that soft-speech and politeness are not my strengths.

However, I believe your interpretation to be flawed and I am examining it based on logic rather than emotion. So I don't really see why I need to consider you a sister in Christ, although you are right, as a Christian you are automatically related to me.

All of that is besides the point. I have yet to see a logical argument from you showing why Jesus can be God and Jewish at the same time.

[Polka Dot]

(Original post by .eXe)
That's all very well and good and forgive me for being rather rash, but that's just my personality. If you have seen my posts on TSR, then you already know that soft-speech and politeness are not my strengths.

However, I believe your interpretation to be flawed and I am examining it based on logic rather than emotion. So I don't really see why I need to consider you a sister in Christ, although you are right, as a Christian you are automatically related to me.

All of that is besides the point. I have yet to see a logical argument from you showing why Jesus can be God and Jewish at the same time.

Hey if I might interject.

1) "The term "Jew" can be used differently in different contexts. In its narrowest interpretation it would mean someone from the tribe of Judah

2)in a broader sense it refers to anyone from the kingdom of Judah, which included within it people from the tribe of Benjamin, Levites and Priests as well. A biblical example of this is Moredechai who is called a Jew even though he was from the tribe of Benjamin.

3)In an even broader sense, especially in contemporary times, the word Jew has come to mean anyone who is part of the "Children of Israel", also known as Israelites,Hebrews, descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as well as 4)converts to Judaism."

So was Jesus a Jew?

Well he was from the tribe of Judah so according to definition 1) yes he is a Jew.

He was born in Bethlehem so is a Jew in the sense that he is from the area of Judah and so a jew according to definition 2).

He is also a decendent of Abraham Issac and Jacob so is a Jew in the sense of Definition 3).

Now I believe we all accept those facts and so in that sense Jesus is a Jew most definitely.

The area of conflict I believe stems from the 4th definition of a Jew being a practisioner of Judiasm.

Here is a good answer from the internet

Was Jesus an observant Jew religiously? Both of Jesus' parents had “done everything required by the Law of the Lord” (Luke 2:39). His aunt and uncle, Zechariah and Elizabeth, were also Torah-observant Jews (Luke 1:6), so we can see that probably the whole family took their Jewish faith very seriously.

In the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5–7), Jesus continually affirmed the authority of the Torah and the Prophets (Matthew 5:17) even in the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 5:19-20). He regularly attended synagogue (Luke 4:16), and His teaching was respected by the other Jews of His day (Luke 4:15). He taught in the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem (Luke 21:37), and if He were not a Jew, His going into that part of the Temple would simply not have been allowed (Acts 21:28-30).

Jesus also displayed the outward signs of being an observant Jew. He wore tzitzit (tassles) on His clothing (Luke 8:43; Matthew 14:36) to serve as a reminder of the commandments (Numbers 15:37-39). He observed Passover (John 2:13) and went up to Jerusalem (Deuteronomy 16:16) on this very important Jewish pilgrimage feast day. He observed Succoth, or the feast of tabernacles (John 7:2, 10) and went up to Jerusalem (John 7:14) as required in the Torah. He also observed Hanukah, the festival of lights (John 10:22) and probably Rosh Hashanah, the feast of trumpets (John 5:1), going up to Jerusalem on both those occasions as well, even though it isn't commanded in the Torah. Clearly, Jesus identified Himself as a Jew (John 4:22) and as King of the Jews (Mark 15:2). From His birth to His last Passover Seder (Luke 22:14-15), Jesus lived as an observant Jew.

So, if Jesus was a Jew, why is it that Christians don’t follow Judaism? The Laws of Judaism were given to Moses for the children of Israel in a very sacred and special covenant at Mount Sinai and recorded for us in the book of Exodus. In this covenant, God wrote His laws on tablets of stone, and Israel was commanded to be obedient to all that was revealed to them. But this wonderful covenant was only a picture of a New and better covenant that God would one day give to His people, both Jew and Gentile.

All of that is besides the point. I have yet to see a logical argument from you showing why Jesus can be God and Jewish at the same time

Jesus was fully God (John 1:1), but He was also a human being (John 1:14). So I don't see why he cant be a Jew and God at the same time

[Christianlady]

(Original post by .eXe)
That's all very well and good and forgive me for being rather rash, but that's just my personality. If you have seen my posts on TSR, then you already know that soft-speech and politeness are not my strengths.

However, I believe your interpretation to be flawed and I am examining it based on logic rather than emotion. So I don't really see why I need to consider you a sister in Christ, although you are right, as a Christian you are automatically related to me.

All of that is besides the point. I have yet to see a logical argument from you showing why Jesus can be God and Jewish at the same time.

Hello eXe,

No problem. Please understand though that I appreciate discussing with gentlemen and ladies who are polite and who, when disagreeing with me, do so without resorting to personal attacks on me. I hope to not resort to personal attacks on anybody, because that does not help anything and Christians are supposed to be gentle and respectful and humble. Sometimes that's hard to do, and sometimes I let my anger get the best of me. However, life is a learning experience.

Well, we obviously do not agree, because I believe the Bible, especially Matthew and Luke, clearly show that Jesus is the descendant of King David, who is Jewish. Hence, Jesus is Jewish, not Gentile.

As for Jesus being God, yes I believe Jesus is God incarnate. I understand most Jewish people do not believe this, and it is really intriguing me to why, and I understand for the most part why they don't believe this. I respect their beliefs.

However, Jesus being God incarnate does not take away the fact that God promised King David offspring that would be on his throne forever. I personally believe God can be in Heaven, everywhere (as David beautifully illustrates in Psalm 139:1-18), and can become flesh (a descendant of Judah, like King David!) die on the cross, and be raised by God who is Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent, at the same time! I truly believe nothing is impossible with God!!!

If you don't agree, that is fine. God knows who is right and who is wrong. Both you and I are only human after all.

God is the Judge, and I am convinced He loves us both, same as I believe He loves and wants all humans to believe in Him and obey Him. (Ezekiel 18:23, Ezekiel 33:11).

Peace and God bless you

Your sister in Christ

[Christianlady]

(Original post by Polka Dot)
Hey if I might interject.

1) "The term "Jew" can be used differently in different contexts. In its narrowest interpretation it would mean someone from the tribe of Judah

2)in a broader sense it refers to anyone from the kingdom of Judah, which included within it people from the tribe of Benjamin, Levites and Priests as well. A biblical example of this is Moredechai who is called a Jew even though he was from the tribe of Benjamin.

3)In an even broader sense, especially in contemporary times, the word Jew has come to mean anyone who is part of the "Children of Israel", also known as Israelites,Hebrews, descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as well as 4)converts to Judaism."

So was Jesus a Jew?

Well he was from the tribe of Judah so according to definition 1) yes he is a Jew.

He was born in Bethlehem so is a Jew in the sense that he is from the area of Judah and so a jew according to definition 2).

He is also a decendent of Abraham Issac and Jacob so is a Jew in the sense of Definition 3).

Now I believe we all accept those facts and so in that sense Jesus is a Jew most definitely.

The area of conflict I believe stems from the 4th definition of a Jew being a practisioner of Judiasm.

Here is a good answer from the internet





Jesus was fully God (John 1:1), but He was also a human being (John 1:14). So I don't see why he cant be a Jew and God at the same time

Hello Polka Dot,

Thanks so much for posting this. God has given you a gift of words.

I agree 100% and wish I had been able to explain how you just did.

Peace and God bless you

[Polka Dot]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Hello Polka Dot,

Thanks so much for posting this. God has given you a gift of words.

I agree 100% and wish I had been able to explain how you just did.

Peace and God bless you

Lol thanks but I cant really take any credit I'm afraid. The First part of the post is a copy of definitions from a website I used preparing for another debate on Jewish historical claims to the land of Israel.