[SpeciousCho]

... or should it just remain a dream? Since getting my degree results last year I've been put off going into postgraduate study- initially, I was considering working for a few years in relevant job before applying for a masters. Since then I've considered a career in publishing and journalism and have had a few interviews. more recently I have been considering things like market/social research and the Civil Service. As it is really hard to get a job at the moment I am trying to keep my options open... I realize that I am hugely advantaged to have a degree from Oxford but I think the reality is that I am still struggling just as much as some other graduates to get a job. I guess part of my problem is that I am finding it very hard to decide what I want to do in the long-term; I would say that I am geared towards more analytical/investigative kinds of careers...

But now, the whole history/academia thing has come back; but I feel like it is futile. Despite being a good student at university, working hard and being capable of originality at times, I did really badly in my UG degree, my marks were 60, 63, 62, 57, 59, 56. I wish I had paid more attention to my marks at university- at school I was diligent, but at university I was quite complacent, thinking it would be quite easy to get a 2:1 in finals anyway...

If I managed to get a job in an arts/heritage type organization before applying for an MA or MPhil would this help (or would it be necessary?)

Also to round off, does anyone know anyone, personally or otherwise, that is doing a Phd in an arts/social sciences subject and is considering an academic career or somthing similar?

Thanks a lot.

[fl4mers]

The fact that you don't really know exactly what you want to do in the long term indicates to me that you'd be better off doing some work experience before embarking on future study. I think it will give you an opportunity to try out different jobs and see how you like them and should help you decide on a direction at least even if it doesn't help you decide on one specific job. Also, one thing you will need to realise is that in order to be a lecturer/academic (at a university at least) you will need to get your PHD and in order to get that you will need to find something you actually want to focus on for your thesis. Again, I think work experience could help you with that if you're not sure yet.

My first instinct was actually to tell you to give teaching a go (possibly abroad) if only to give you an idea of what lecturing would be like. I've been teaching English abroad for the last 2 years and have had a couple of opportunities to hold lectures of my own on teaching while doing so. That has not only greatly improved my presentation skills, but it also really showed me that presenting/lecturing is something I really enjoy and would like to possibly pursue in the future. I graduated 4 years ago and am now going for an MA in Human Resource Management with specialisation in Training and Management. I am obviously not saying that is what you have to do, but for me it was a really great experience.

Also, I think if you got a job in an arts/heritage type organization it would almost definitely help your application to an MA in a related field, but I don't think it would be strictly necessary. Universities do like to see relevant work experience if there has been a gao since you graduated, but if you're a fresh graduate of a similar undergraduate degree they usually are willing to take you without experience too. `

I do know people who have done/ are doing their PHD but they were involved in Criminal Law and Archaeology...so not that related. Sorry!

[DynamicSyngery]

Unless you're one of the very few who can get funding a PhD in history is going to be a net cost, not an alternative to having a job. Given your results I can only think it is very unlikely you would get funding, at the very least without doing well in a paid masters.

[hobnob]

It isn't totally impossible, but the odds aren't great. At the moment, the odds aren't great even for people with a flawless academic track record.

Most people doing PhDs in the humanities and quite a few in the social sciences are considering academic careers - that's part of the problem. There are lots of people hoping to go into academia, but nowhere near enough jobs to go round.

[Ghost6]

Miracles do happen, but realistically, no.

[polerina]

I got a 2:1 and have an MA (pass with merit) in English Lit and was told by my lecturers that basically me being a lecturer just wouldn't happen because getting a funded ph.d was pretty much impossible.

There is absolutly no funding in the Humanities at the minuet, you'd need to do your MA, get more than just a Distinction, you'd need marks in the 80's rather than the 70's, and an absolutly killer Thesis proposal idea for ph.d. Even with all that, the chances of getting a job in academia are still very slim. There can be over 100 applicants for one post, all with unblemished academic records. It sucks I know.

[SpeciousCho]

Thanks a lot for these comments guys!

[QI Elf]

(Original post by polerina)
I got a 2:1 and have an MA (pass with merit) in English Lit and was told by my lecturers that basically me being a lecturer just wouldn't happen because getting a funded ph.d was pretty much impossible.

There is absolutly no funding in the Humanities at the minuet, you'd need to do your MA, get more than just a Distinction, you'd need marks in the 80's rather than the 70's, and an absolutly killer Thesis proposal idea for ph.d. Even with all that, the chances of getting a job in academia are still very slim. There can be over 100 applicants for one post, all with unblemished academic records. It sucks I know.

I realise that this is the situation for the majority of people, especially in the humanties. How essential is getting funding for a phD to actuall becoming a lecturer, do you know?

[Craghyrax]

(Original post by SpeciousCho)
... or should it just remain a dream? Since getting my degree results last year I've been put off going into postgraduate study- initially, I was considering working for a few years in relevant job before applying for a masters. Since then I've considered a career in publishing and journalism and have had a few interviews. more recently I have been considering things like market/social research and the Civil Service. As it is really hard to get a job at the moment I am trying to keep my options open... I realize that I am hugely advantaged to have a degree from Oxford but I think the reality is that I am still struggling just as much as some other graduates to get a job. I guess part of my problem is that I am finding it very hard to decide what I want to do in the long-term; I would say that I am geared towards more analytical/investigative kinds of careers...

But now, the whole history/academia thing has come back; but I feel like it is futile. Despite being a good student at university, working hard and being capable of originality at times, I did really badly in my UG degree, my marks were 60, 63, 62, 57, 59, 56. I wish I had paid more attention to my marks at university- at school I was diligent, but at university I was quite complacent, thinking it would be quite easy to get a 2:1 in finals anyway...

If I managed to get a job in an arts/heritage type organization before applying for an MA or MPhil would this help (or would it be necessary?)

Also to round off, does anyone know anyone, personally or otherwise, that is doing a Phd in an arts/social sciences subject and is considering an academic career or somthing similar?

Thanks a lot.

I think getting relevant work experience before a Masters would probably help. Universities are sometimes more lenient about admissions when people have spent a reasonable amount of time in the work place.
Getting onto a Masters with a 2.2 would be difficult, but if you managed it then it would give you a second chance. If you got a first on a Masters then I think it would make up for your 2.2.
The best thing would be to email Universities and ask whether they would consider a Masters application from you with your grades.

[IShouldBeStudying]

I graduated in 2010 with a 2:2 in Psychology. I took a year out to work as a manager in a country club, and over the course of the year came to the realisation that it wasn't the life I wanted. I knew that with my qualification, I was unlikely to land a graduate job, so could either stay in my current role and wait for a lucky break, or go back to school and try to do better.

I'm not entirely sure how I managed to get on to my MSc, but it was partly the course tutor taking a chance on me and partly my own enthusiasm to return to education and study the course that was offered. If you want to return to University on a 2:2, it's more than possible. But make sure that you contact the right people, show your enthusiasm and why you're a good candidate (if you have relevent work experience, it would help your application massively). By far, in my own experience, the important thing is to show how enthusiastic you are about the course. It is easy for a course tutor to reject an application from someone that's just filled in a few sheets of paper. If those sheets of paper belong to someone that has contacted them and spoke to them about their course, what they're looking forward to studying and how interested they are, the decision becomes much harder. You may, in fact, find yourself beating out other - better qualified - candidates on the basis of your taking initiative and responsibility for your studies.

After that, work hard. Turn down those nights out to read in the library and make sure you're going beyond the readings. If you want to get onto a PhD, you're going to have to show a dramatic improvement in your academic abilities. Take your 2:2 as a kick up the butt to improve your game. If you were competent, but complacent, then this is doable. It's a matter of unlearning bad habits.

Your PhD application is more likely to focus on your Masters course and your performance on it, but be prepared to answer some questions on your undergraduate and why you didn't do as well as you had hoped. Again, if you've managed to turn things around and get on track, this shouldn't be too much of a hurdle.

So yes, all in all, what you're looking to do is possible. Go back to Uni on a Masters programme and see how you cope. If you fall back into old habits, then maybe you're not cut out for academic life, but so long as you pass you'll have an extra degree that you can use to gain employment with. If you thrive, then you can proceed further up that ladder.

Good luck!

[apotoftea]

(Original post by QI Elf)
I realise that this is the situation for the majority of people, especially in the humanties. How essential is getting funding for a phD to actuall becoming a lecturer, do you know?

To be taken seriously as an academic and to qualify for 99% of positions you need a PhD. It's the one way to prove you can produce a substantial body of new work effectively. Lecturing in further education, so a college or whatever, is a different ball game entirely and you wouldn't need a PhD.

[QI Elf]

(Original post by apotoftea)
To be taken seriously as an academic and to qualify for 99% of positions you need a PhD. It's the one way to prove you can produce a substantial body of new work effectively. Lecturing in further education, so a college or whatever, is a different ball game entirely and you wouldn't need a PhD.

I actually meant as opposed to self funding a phD.
If the likelihood of becoming an academic is reduced if unsuccessful if you self fund as opposed to being funded. I'm starting my MA in history this September and plan to go onto a phD, but as I only got a relatively low 2.1 in my BA, I doubt I'd ever get funding. My granny has very kindly offered to help me with phD fees if needed.

[poohat]

Doing an unfunded humanities PhD doesnt sound like a great decision, its a bad enough idea in the sciences let alone in an area where there are few jobs

If you can get a place at Oxford (or similar) and the money is coming from family rather than bank loans then perhaps, but do serious research into the career prospects first

[apotoftea]

(Original post by QI Elf)
I actually meant as opposed to self funding a phD.
If the likelihood of becoming an academic is reduced if unsuccessful if you self fund as opposed to being funded. I'm starting my MA in history this September and plan to go onto a phD, but as I only got a relatively low 2.1 in my BA, I doubt I'd ever get funding. My granny has very kindly offered to help me with phD fees if needed.

In my experience of (now) three different academic History departments, the general consensus is that having PhD funding gets you a job interview.

Have a read of this thread: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...924&highlight=

As I'm not the only to have experienced this.

Plus and I'm saying this as an INCREDIBLY lucky PhD student to have AHRC funding without a first/distinction profile - make tripley sure you want to do a PhD as it's a long old slog at the best of times and you really really don't want to be worrying about money

[SpeciousCho]

Many thanks for all of your comments guys! It has helped to encourage me slightly as well as give me a reality check.

(Original post by apotoftea)
Plus and I'm saying this as an INCREDIBLY lucky PhD student to have AHRC funding without a first/distinction profile - make tripley sure you want to do a PhD as it's a long old slog at the best of times and you really really don't want to be worrying about money

Surely you must have achieved a very high 2:1? May I ask whether you think it was your results, or your research proposal/passion/references etc. that enabled you to get a studentship?

[apotoftea]

(Original post by SpeciousCho)
Surely you must have achieved a very high 2:1? May I ask whether you think it was your results, or your research proposal/passion/references etc. that enabled you to get a studentship?

Nope - 64% for my BA & 65 for my MA. Mine's slightly different as it's a collaborative award so my rough research area was advertised. I then had to produce a proposal for it & apply along with a CV, personal statement and references. I believe they interviewed at least four different people at two different times. Honestly? Because it's a collaborative award & thus working with an archive/museum, I believe it was a combination of my interview, my experience of museum/heritage work at both theory & practical levels and a bit of luck.

That said, I honestly believe they'd made their decision before interview