[Jimmy Mullen]

Hi all

You may be aware that on many SECONDARY PGCE's there is a requirement to undertake a one week observation in a primary school. Mine must be taken in Early september (First week of the course).

Just wondered which is the most effective way to contact a school to arrange this observation? Is it better to ring up and ask for the Head, or send a letter or e-mail (if there is one)?

I would especially like to hear from those who have done this in the past and been successful, for their advice. Cheers.

[affinity89]

Just to note, primary pgce students have to spend time in primary and secondary schools before the courses start too.

I sent letters and emailed schools first. But, I didn't really get far. A lot of schools are reluctant to take people they don't know and they get requests from many sources.

If you have any connections at all, I would try to use them. I ended up securing my two observational placements through the mother of a friend [who was a deputy headteacher at a primary school] and I went back to my own secondary school. Do you have any links like that?

I'd probably email/write a letter first and then call to follow it up, rather than calling out of the blue.
Be sure to state that you have a CRB - whilst you shouldn't be left alone with the class, a lot of schools like you to have a recent CRB to fit with their own safeguarding policies.

[Smile*89]

Hey!!

Yeah I too am due to start a Secondary PGCE this September, and have been told that I need to undergo 3 days observing phonics teaching at a primary school.

So I've been ringing Primary schools nearby me today to see whether they any can accommodate me. I finally have a primary school who's happy to have me! Some schools I spoke to were already booked up, and I was starting to get worried, especially because the schools are breaking up soon.

I think its best to ring them rather than email, they are much quicker at responding that way!

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by affinity89)
Just to note, primary pgce students have to spend time in primary and secondary schools before the courses start too.

I sent letters and emailed schools first. But, I didn't really get far. A lot of schools are reluctant to take people they don't know and they get requests from many sources.

If you have any connections at all, I would try to use them. I ended up securing my two observational placements through the mother of a friend [who was a deputy headteacher at a primary school] and I went back to my own secondary school. Do you have any links like that?

I'd probably email/write a letter first and then call to follow it up, rather than calling out of the blue.
Be sure to state that you have a CRB - whilst you shouldn't be left alone with the class, a lot of schools like you to have a recent CRB to fit with their own safeguarding policies.

Sadly don't have any connections to anyone in primary schools (cannot think of anyone anyway). I have not started to contact yet - will do so in the next few days. At the moment I will probably call them one by one until I get a positive response.

Yes the CRB came through recently, so I will let them know I have it.

I'm willing to travel, so hopefully It won't be too difficult to find one. Would be a lot easier if the providers just gave you a placement and said: "you go here". Much easier.

[paddyman4]

I rang up and asked if I could speak to the head or to someone about getting some observation in as part of a secondary PGCE. They always told me the relevant person was busy but gave me a direct email and a name. Do this enough times and you'll get a place, but you may have to go through a lot of schools - I did. Especially as it is the start of their year, some schools like to not have any observers at the start of the year when teachers are getting to know their class.

Strangely I found it harder to get the secondary observation time.

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by paddyman4)
I rang up and asked if I could speak to the head or to someone about getting some observation in as part of a secondary PGCE. They always told me the relevant person was busy but gave me a direct email and a name. Do this enough times and you'll get a place, but you may have to go through a lot of schools - I did. Especially as it is the start of their year, some schools like to not have any observers at the start of the year when teachers are getting to know their class.

Strangely I found it harder to get the secondary observation time.

Seems silly that some don't want students observing as its early september. Anyone would think we were OFSTED or something! maybe an undercover OFSTED inspection team! I mean us students don't give a monkey's if the teachers don't fully know the class, we won't either!!!

Yeah I will probably do the same as you did. I can get cracking with it now that I know I Have got my First Class Honours

[affinity89]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
Seems silly that some don't want students observing as its early september. Anyone would think we were OFSTED or something! maybe an undercover OFSTED inspection team! I mean us students don't give a monkey's if the teachers don't fully know the class, we won't either!!!

Yeah I will probably do the same as you did. I can get cracking with it now that I know I Have got my First Class Honours

It has nothing to do with you seeing this or that.

It is to do with the teacher and the class getting to know each other. The first few weeks are the most important for establishing ground rules, routines and general classroom discipline. Having extra people around, especially when they are only there for a couple of weeks/days, can disrupt that.

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by affinity89)
It has nothing to do with you seeing this or that.

It is to do with the teacher and the class getting to know each other. The first few weeks are the most important for establishing ground rules, routines and general classroom discipline. Having extra people around, especially when they are only there for a couple of weeks/days, can disrupt that.

I disagree, it has no effect at all on discipline, rules etc. If anything it is an extra pair of hands! It is an observation, not teaching practice, so rules will remain the same, observers will not come in and adjust things.

[myrtille]

I have to do 8 days in primary and 2 days in secondary.

I emailed a local primary school, and the administrator emailed back promptly asking me to telephone the head and arrange to come in and discuss it with him at some point. Unfortunately I've had problems getting through because I can't call until the very end of the school day, when I finish work, and the head has been in meetings when I've phoned. I'm going to try again early next week.

The secondary school emailed back saying they aren't able to offer me a placement as they are already fully committed to their own trainees. To me this sounded like they hadn't read the email properly, as I only needed to be there for 2 days! So I need to find another secondary school...

If I don't have any more luck with a local secondary school, I'll try one of the schools I've worked at instead, as having contacts might help.

[affinity89]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
I disagree, it has no effect at all on discipline, rules etc. If anything it is an extra pair of hands! It is an observation, not teaching practice, so rules will remain the same, observers will not come in and adjust things.

We will have to agree to disagree. Given the number of schools that prefer that people don't come in during the first week of September, I would hazard a guess that they agree with me.

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by affinity89)
We will have to agree to disagree. Given the number of schools that prefer that people don't come in during the first week of September, I would hazard a guess that they agree with me.

You are not given that number though are you, so everything you are saying is based on guesswork!

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by Keziah)
I have to do 8 days in primary and 2 days in secondary.

I emailed a local primary school, and the administrator emailed back promptly asking me to telephone the head and arrange to come in and discuss it with him at some point. Unfortunately I've had problems getting through because I can't call until the very end of the school day, when I finish work, and the head has been in meetings when I've phoned. I'm going to try again early next week.

The secondary school emailed back saying they aren't able to offer me a placement as they are already fully committed to their own trainees. To me this sounded like they hadn't read the email properly, as I only needed to be there for 2 days! So I need to find another secondary school...

If I don't have any more luck with a local secondary school, I'll try one of the schools I've worked at instead, as having contacts might help.

Seems strange that you have to do a secondary observation if you are on a secondary pgce. Have you been told to do it just to top up your secondary experience before you start?

They will make any excuse if they don't want observers in. It's silly really as it would actually help them more than hinder them!

[affinity89]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
You are not given that number though are you, so everything you are saying is based on guesswork!

You seem to have something of an attitude problem. I don't understand why you are being so rude!

The heads at all the main placement schools I've been in, and in various short-term placement schools, have talked about their reluctance to take students at the very beginning of the year. Similarly, my STCC decided that he wanted the students in one of his schools to stop teaching last week because he moves the students up from Monday into their new classes. Obviously, teaching the class is different to observing. But, any extra adult changes the dynamic. Depending on the age of the children, routines are very important and establishing those routines correctly is essential. With EYFS/Yr1, I've seen children become very distressed and cry when their routine is altered. So, having just a few days to settle things down and let the teacher and pupils get used to each other properly is not a lot to ask or expect.

I really don't understand why that is so hard to accept?!

If you find a school that wants you in for the first week in September, great for you. If not, it shouldn't come as a great surprise.

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by affinity89)
You seem to have something of an attitude problem. I don't understand why you are being so rude!

The heads at all the main placement schools I've been in, and in various short-term placement schools, have talked about their reluctance to take students at the very beginning of the year. Similarly, my STCC decided that he wanted the students in one of his schools to stop teaching last week because he moves the students up from Monday into their new classes. Obviously, teaching the class is different to observing. But, any extra adult changes the dynamic. Depending on the age of the children, routines are very important and establishing those routines correctly is essential. With EYFS/Yr1, I've seen children become very distressed and cry when their routine is altered. So, having just a few days to settle things down and let the teacher and pupils get used to each other properly is not a lot to ask or expect.

I really don't understand why that is so hard to accept?!

If you find a school that wants you in for the first week in September, great for you. If not, it shouldn't come as a great surprise.

No evidence of an attitude problem. You cannot see me. I just said you don't know the number of schools, which you don't, so you are guessing. I doubt your placement schools are every single one in the country, so you don't know the exact number do you, which you incorrrectly stated in the earlier post.

It is not the first week in september, read the first post, it says the "first week of the course", that is not the first week in september.

I still don't agree with them about disrupted routines, it is nonsense. another member on this very thread was given another lame excuse!!! It would help the schools not hinder them.

[affinity89]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
No evidence of an attitude problem. You cannot see me. I just said you don't know the number of schools, which you don't, so you are guessing. I doubt your placement schools are every single one in the country, so you don't know the exact number do you, which you incorrrectly stated in the earlier post.

It is not the first week in september, read the first post, it says the "first week of the course", that is not the first week in september.

I still don't agree with them about disrupted routines, it is nonsense. another member on this very thread was given another lame excuse!!! It would help the schools not hinder them.

My PGCE course started in the first week of September, hence the confusion there.

To be honest, schools do not have to take people, although it does help them meet certain standards they have. An extra pair of hands can be helpful, without doubt, but again, that is not a given. Sometimes, it can be a hinderance, especially if the person is only going to be in for a couple of days. Just as they are getting used to the class, and the class are getting used to them, they are gone.

Anyway, I stand my post. I hope you find somewhere and that you enjoy it when you do. Other than that, I have nothing more to say.

[Mr M]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
...

(Original post by affinity89)
...

I hope you take this the right way Jimmy but an essential attribute in a student teacher is the ability to know when to keep quiet and keep out of the way so as not to increase our workload. You should realise that you don't actually know anything about operational procedures in schools or the positive or negative effect of another presence in the classroom.

Affinity correctly told you that many schools are reluctant to welcome visitors early in the Autumn Term. No matter how helpful you think you will be, you need to realise accommodating you is a hassle and teachers won't appreciate it if you act as if you are doing them a favour.

[myrtille]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
Seems strange that you have to do a secondary observation if you are on a secondary pgce. Have you been told to do it just to top up your secondary experience before you start?

They will make any excuse if they don't want observers in. It's silly really as it would actually help them more than hinder them!

Hi,

No it's not just to top up my secondary experience. By the end of the summer term I will have done a total of 15 weeks full-time unqualified teaching in my subject in 2 different secondary schools, so am not short of experience. Leicester just make everyone do this observation programme before the course.

It's all to do with transition from primary to secondary, and I'm supposed to shadow a new Year 7 pupil for half a day and encourage them to talk about their experiences of changing school. I'm also supposed to pick a topic (I think the options were behaviour management, differentiation and SEN provision) and take notes on what I observe and discuss with teachers.

Ideally the secondary school should be the one most pupils from the primary school go to. But if the primary I've contacted accept me, I can't go to the local secondary school because they've already said no. I'll have to see what else I can find locally...

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by Mr M)
I hope you take this the right way Jimmy but an essential attribute in a student teacher is the ability to know when to keep quiet and keep out of the way so as not to increase our workload. You should realise that you don't actually know anything about operational procedures in schools or the positive or negative effect of another presence in the classroom.

Affinity correctly told you that many schools are reluctant to welcome visitors early in the Autumn Term. No matter how helpful you think you will be, you need to realise accommodating you is a hassle and teachers won't appreciate it if you act as if you are doing them a favour.

If it is the case that it is a 'hassle' then surely every single one in the country would turn us down, as none of them are gaining anything from it? Every year providers insist secondary trainees do this primary observation, so there are 'some' primary schools which are saying yes, so they must be gaining something out of it?

Personally I would rather not do it at all as I have very little interest in the primary level, and expect to gain almost nothing out of it. I certainly won't be spending any time with the early years that's for sure.

"I am on a train driving course, oh right go and spend a week flying a helicopter"

[Mr M]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
If it is the case that it is a 'hassle' then surely every single one in the country would turn us down, as none of them are gaining anything from it? Every year providers insist secondary trainees do this primary observation, so there are 'some' primary schools which are saying yes, so they must be gaining something out of it?

Personally I would rather not do it at all as I have very little interest in the primary level, and expect to gain almost nothing out of it. I certainly won't be spending any time with the early years that's for sure.

"I am on a train driving course, oh right go and spend a week flying a helicopter"

Of course schools don't gain anything out of your week of Primary observation. Their motivation is to help you enter the profession.

Your attitude leaves me with real concerns about your suitability for teacher training. Every post you make gives the impression you feel you have nothing to learn.

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by Mr M)
Of course schools don't gain anything out of your week of Primary observation. Their motivation is to help you enter the profession.

Your attitude leaves me with real concerns about your suitability for teacher training. Every post you make gives the impression you feel you have nothing to learn.

So are you saying primary is very similar to secondary? (my last line from
previous post). I don't want to learn about primary - that's why I am on Secondary not Primary. Surely you can see what I am saying here mate!
If you can see a lot of point to a week's primary obs for a secondary trainee then I would love to know why, because I think it's the Train-Helicopter scenario.