[Mr M]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
So are you saying primary is very similar to secondary? (my last line from
previous post). I don't want to learn about primary - that's why I am on Secondary not Primary. Surely you can see what I am saying here mate!
If you can see a lot of point to a week's primary obs for a secondary trainee then I would love to know why, because I think it's the Train-Helicopter scenario.

Here's a task for you then: identify the similarities and differences in Primary and Secondary teaching.

If your first thought was that you will obviously deliver more advanced content then think again. Some Year 6 children could comfortably achieve grade C in GCSE mathematics and some of your Year 11s will not be able to tell the time.

Transition between phases is a VERY big deal in schools. It is a time of high anxiety for students and their parents and it is essential you appreciate the issues they face.

[Mini-Cooper]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
Personally I would rather not do it at all as I have very little interest in the primary level, and expect to gain almost nothing out of it. I certainly won't be spending any time with the early years that's for sure.

"I am on a train driving course, oh right go and spend a week flying a helicopter"

I am also going into Secondary teaching. I have no interest in Primary. But I am the opposite to you, I feel I will learn a lot from it. How are you going to know what or how to teach them if you have not seen the environment in which they spent their last 7 years of education?
You can learn a lot about behaviour, attitudes to work, WHAT they are learning and HOW they are being taught it just to name a few things. Obviously this will vary between schools but seeing at least one example will be excellent experience.

I think you need to rethink your ridiculous train-helicopter idea.. maybe thing more along this line:

"I am on a train driving course, so now I need to go and spend a week travelling on the different types of trains and visiting different stations."

Because in this example, whilst not getting practical experience, you are learning about what you are going to be working with. If you learn about trains before you learn to drive them you are going to do better than if you didn't. Similarly, if you learn about the types of students you are going to be working with then you are going to have a much better starting point than having to learn about them as you learn to teach.

(Original post by Mr M)
If your first thought was that you will obviously deliver more advanced content then think again. Some Year 6 children could comfortably achieve grade C in GCSE mathematics and some of your Year 11s will not be able to tell the time.

In one of my A level classes the teacher had to teach some students the months of the year and their order.
OP - As a teacher you should never over estimate knowledge.

[rachelsays]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
So are you saying primary is very similar to secondary? (my last line from
previous post). I don't want to learn about primary - that's why I am on Secondary not Primary. Surely you can see what I am saying here mate!
If you can see a lot of point to a week's primary obs for a secondary trainee then I would love to know why, because I think it's the Train-Helicopter scenario.

So you're not interested in your students as people, then? Not bothered about how they have been taught to engage with the world and develop their knowledge as they have grown from toddlers into pre-teens? Not at all intrigued as to how they are prepared for the transition between primary and secondary school? Not concerned about how you can help them adapt to the change in learning and teaching methods they will experience in Year 7? Not fussed about actually understanding what is reasonable to expect of them when they turn up at your door on the first day of secondary school?

Children don't magically change over the six weeks between primary and secondary school. The kids you see playing hopscotch in the playground in Year 6 will be the same kids who turn up to their first day of secondary school in their oversized blazers just a few weeks later. There is no clear cut dividing line between primary and secondary education.

In order to teach effectively and move a child forward in their education, then you need to understand where they have come from before entering your classroom. If you seriously can't appreciate that, then I very much doubt your suitability for the teaching profession.

[Jimmy Mullen]

Last 3 posts -> It is the ages that I was talking about. Obviously levels will be different. I can understand observing Year 6, maybe years 4,5 at a push but definitely not anything lower.

And the last post -> Maybe we should have been there for the childbirth as well, as we have not witnessed the development in those stages!!

Anyway, I am now going to bring us back on topic. Those who still wish to discuss the usefulness of a primary observation may do so at their leisure, by creating their own thread, which I will not participate in, as my opinion will not be changed and the matter is closed.

-----------------------------------

Back to original topic, I think e-mail is the way to go at the moment, I will begin my enquiries, and we wait to see the results.

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by Keziah)
Hi,

No it's not just to top up my secondary experience. By the end of the summer term I will have done a total of 15 weeks full-time unqualified teaching in my subject in 2 different secondary schools, so am not short of experience. Leicester just make everyone do this observation programme before the course.

It's all to do with transition from primary to secondary, and I'm supposed to shadow a new Year 7 pupil for half a day and encourage them to talk about their experiences of changing school. I'm also supposed to pick a topic (I think the options were behaviour management, differentiation and SEN provision) and take notes on what I observe and discuss with teachers.

Ideally the secondary school should be the one most pupils from the primary school go to. But if the primary I've contacted accept me, I can't go to the local secondary school because they've already said no. I'll have to see what else I can find locally...

I wish you the best of luck in your search my friend. Stay tuned for a commentary on my similar efforts this week.

[SHABANA]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
Hi all

You may be aware that on many SECONDARY PGCE's there is a requirement to undertake a one week observation in a primary school. Mine must be taken in Early september (First week of the course).

Just wondered which is the most effective way to contact a school to arrange this observation? Is it better to ring up and ask for the Head, or send a letter or e-mail (if there is one)?

I would especially like to hear from those who have done this in the past and been successful, for their advice. Cheers.

I've found that the best way is to ring them up, and explain that you are starting a PGCE and need 7 days experience. I did this quite late on so didn't find any school near to me, so started on schools in the next city. Luckily, the head answered the phone and sorted it for 7 days after the holidays.

[SHABANA]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
If it is the case that it is a 'hassle' then surely every single one in the country would turn us down, as none of them are gaining anything from it? Every year providers insist secondary trainees do this primary observation, so there are 'some' primary schools which are saying yes, so they must be gaining something out of it?

Personally I would rather not do it at all as I have very little interest in the primary level, and expect to gain almost nothing out of it. I certainly won't be spending any time with the early years that's for sure.

"I am on a train driving course, oh right go and spend a week flying a helicopter"

I did my observation in the first week of the school's new term and it is a very hectic time for the school, they are doing you a huge favour by letting you go in. You're not the biggest help (as you are not a trained teacher or a teaching assistant). You seem to have a very odd attitude to say that you entering the teaching profession. When you have a year 7 class where have they just come from? Primary school. The transition from primary to secondary is a huge deal so you need to understand where the pupils have come from and what type of environment they have been in so that you can teach them to the best of your ability.
I would never want to teach at primary, but did I gain anything from the primary placement? Absolutely.

[Jimmy Mullen]

Update: Now e-mailed several schools that I would be willing to go to, 3 in my LA, 3 further away, a good mix, and I will wait for a response.

Interestingly for a couple of them, I was able to find the address of the headteacher, rather than the general admin address of the school, so hopefully I can make some progress there.

If next week I have had no responses, I will begin calling these selections, and possibly extend the search further.

[Jimmy Mullen]

Update 2:

I think I have the midas touch this month. Sent off e-mails last night to only 6 primary schools, 1 reply today saying they would accept me!!!

That just proves that those of you who said it would be extremely difficult, schools dont want it in sept etc. is actually nonsense if you know what you are doing.

Anyone needing a similar observation and wanting advice, get in touch and I will sort it.

[myblueheaven339]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
Update 2:

I think I have the midas touch this month. Sent off e-mails last night to only 6 primary schools, 1 reply today saying they would accept me!!!

That just proves that those of you who said it would be extremely difficult, schools dont want it in sept etc. is actually nonsense if you know what you are doing.

Anyone needing a similar observation and wanting advice, get in touch and I will sort it.

At the end of the day, people were just trying to offer advice based on their own experience. The fact that your experience has been different does not make it nonsense. I wish you the best of luck on your course, but I think you have a steep learning curve ahead of you.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[Mini-Cooper]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
Update 2:

I think I have the midas touch this month. Sent off e-mails last night to only 6 primary schools, 1 reply today saying they would accept me!!!

That just proves that those of you who said it would be extremely difficult, schools dont want it in sept etc. is actually nonsense if you know what you are doing.

Anyone needing a similar observation and wanting advice, get in touch and I will sort it.

But you only got ONE response from SIX schools after a second attempt. I don't see this as an example of someone getting experience easily. It seems to me that you did find it difficult and that most schools don't want you in September... kind of contradicting yourself there...

You still need to change your attitude to the experience, but I guess you have 2 months to work on that...

[gingerbreadman85]

A week's worth of experience is pretty much the benchmark for pre-entry PGCE, so many schools have people ringing around.

Been a while since i did mine (2008), but i remember the problem being more that schools already had people booked in than not being interested. I had to ring around a lot of places (like 15 schools) and I ended up having to widen my search a fair bit and going to a small village primary which did combined yr6/5, yr4/3 and yr 2/1 classes.

Personally i preferred ringing, as you got instant contact. Also the school didn't just feel that you were mass-emailing places.

My advice is not to be picky about the school. Remember, it's only a week, you're not going for a job there! Even if it's a bit rough!

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by Mini-Cooper)
But you only got ONE response from SIX schools after a second attempt. I don't see this as an example of someone getting experience easily. It seems to me that you did find it difficult and that most schools don't want you in September... kind of contradicting yourself there...

You still need to change your attitude to the experience, but I guess you have 2 months to work on that...

If you were a teacher and this forum was a school you would be the most negative and dismal attitude of the lot, hated by students and staff one and all.

Second attempt??? six e-mails gone out at same time, one response saying yes. No second attempt. Easy. And get a better car Mr Cooper (or mrs cooper, I am not discriminating).

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by myblueheaven339)
At the end of the day, people were just trying to offer advice based on their own experience. The fact that your experience has been different does not make it nonsense. I wish you the best of luck on your course, but I think you have a steep learning curve ahead of you.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

It is a PGCE. The whole cohort has a steep learning curve.

[Jimmy Mullen]

And while I am here, why is it currently the fashion for people to feel the need to advertise that they have sent a message through an "App". What is it a warning or something? WARNING APP User alert!

And it always says i-phone,i-pad etc. Unless Apple are paying you to advertise their name, you should be using the word "Tablet" or "telecommunication device". Other phone and tablet providers are available.

This was posted from a Computer.

[myblueheaven339]

(Original post by Jimmy Mullen)
And while I am here, why is it currently the fashion for people to feel the need to advertise that they have sent a message through an "App". What is it a warning or something? WARNING APP User alert!

And it always says i-phone,i-pad etc. Unless Apple are paying you to advertise their name, you should be using the word "Tablet" or "telecommunication device". Other phone and tablet providers are available.

This was posted from a Computer.

It's not a fashion. It's built into the app.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

[Jimmy Mullen]

(Original post by myblueheaven339)
It's not a fashion. It's built into the app.


This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App

Well can you tell them not to please as it is quite unnecessary and takes up valuable space

This was again posted from a computer.

[robo donkey]

Phone up, explain you need experience and ask them, be professional and courteous over the phone. Was not an issue for me, I think over the phone was a bit better though as opposed to e-mail, with it being slightly more personal and all that.