[Snorrrlax]

Cannibalism is such a horrendous thing, but is there really that much difference between eating your own species and eating another? I'm not suggesting that cannibalism should be seen as more acceptable, I'm suggesting that eating animals should be seen as worse than it is.

Just because an animal isn't able to speak and is less intelligent, us humans see it as a lesser form of life. But it's still alive and is just as likely to have a "soul" as we are.

I encourage you to watch this online film that explains my views perfectly - http://www.earthlings.com/

What are your opinions on this?

[Atheism]

I don't see a 'value' in life, especially not animal life. If they die painlessly(And I'm aware that may not be the situation often) I have no problem with it. I'm, as my username hints, not religious, so the 'soul' thing.. nope.

I do, in a vague-ish way, support a more painless death for the animals used in food, although to be honest I don't care enough about animals to do anything about it.



Expecting negs, but it's just my opinion.

[Snorrrlax]

(Original post by Atheism)
I don't see a 'value' in life, especially not animal life. If they die painlessly(And I'm aware that may not be the situation often) I have no problem with it. I'm, as my username hints, not religious, so the 'soul' thing.. nope.

I do, in a vague-ish way, support a more painless death for the animals used in food, although to be honest I don't care enough about animals to do anything about it.



Expecting negs, but it's just my opinion.

I just don't understand how anyone thinks they have the right to say their life is more valuable than an animals. I don't believe in souls either, but if they did exist, then animals also have them. If humans were killed painlessly, would it be okay for cannibals to eat them?

[SmileAway]

Animals kill each other, to eat each other. I don't see a problem with us joining in with this cycle?

[Atheism]

(Original post by Snorrrlax)
I don't believe in souls either, but if they did exist, then animals also have them.

But we're in agreement that.. they don't? Just like potatoes don't.

If humans were killed painlessly, would it be okay for cannibals to eat them?

Honestly, yeah, in my opinion.

[Snorrrlax]

(Original post by SmileAway)
Animals kill each other, to eat each other. I don't see a problem with us joining in with this cycle?

They do it to survive. We no longer need to do it to survive, but only to feed our greed. You're essentially saying that cannibalism is okay?

[EyesSetToKill]

Surely though it's just generally not 'natures way'.

We are not the only animals on this planet who eat other animals. I don't think a lion before it eats a Zebra thinks 'This is a less intelligent life form therefore I can eat it' does it?

With cannibalism, that is just sick. It is completely different from eating another species. Firstly, if it was the same, what would be the point in different species? What would be the point in evolving to become the best predator? Why would they kill their own species which they are trying to preserve e.g by breeding and surviving.

Also, calling animals less intelligent contradicts what you just said. Many are extremely intelligent just not in ways similar to our own.

[Chumbaniya]

If you're basing your choices of what to eat on the likelihood that an entity 'has a soul' then I'm not sure why you see eating a human being as any less acceptable than eating a carrot. There's no reason to make any crazy assumptions about other organisms having invisible, intangible things living inside them. The reason we are so averse to eating humans is because humankind wouldn't have done a great job surviving and thriving if we decided to eat each other (or indeed kill each other for any reason), so societies have developed a very reasonable disapproval of people killing others, whether it be to eat or otherwise. In the case of animals, there's no similar reason to avoid killing them.

I'm not suggesting we look to human evolution to provide answers to moral questions. I'm just demonstrating that there does exist a reason to treat animals and humans differently, and if you start worrying about not eating anything that might object to being eaten - especially if you do so on the grounds of something impossible to measure, like the existence of a 'soul' - you'll never eat anything.

[SmileAway]

(Original post by Snorrrlax)
They do it to survive. We no longer need to do it to survive, but only to feed our greed. You're essentially saying that cannibalism is okay?

No, I am not saying that cannibalism is alright - I never mentioned it. Animals in the same species don't usually eat each other, thus it isn't acceptable. So what I can survive without a LOT of things, but I like that taste of meat. So sue me.

[ABQ_Pinkman]

donna haraway

~~~

the amount of attention given to this issue could be better directed elsewhere imho. lots more serious ****** going on in this world that merits close attention. in terms of animal rights and what have you, i think we should do away with seaworld, zoos and such. how far does it go though, i mean, should animals be prohibited from being used as assistive labour farming/production of human goods?

because ultimately, choosing to abstain from eating or wearing certain things will only result in major annoyances for a certain period of time and then one gets used to it. it's also a classic euro-middle class/privileged-hipster-control issues 'cause' or whatever.

i personally think humans do a great job hurting, exploiting and manipulating the earth's resources and each other. species-wise, we are pretty up theree..

anyway, i much prefer vegan hare-krishnas social/community workers to "rah-rah- 24 h gigging-neo-hipsters", "minor-threat-super punk anarchists" or - you get my drift..

i also think we owe it to ourselves to at least be somewhat tolerable in our daily lives to as many people as possible, due to our posession of a soul/consciousness/emotions. at least animals are apt at the whole law of nature; whereas we are pretty messed up, wouldn't you say?

[elixira]

I find it stupid how humans go on about being superior to animals, more intelligent than them - yeah OF COURSE we'd think that. It's so arrogant. Life is life. I see the odd thread on here asking a question like, "Would you rather save your pet dog or a baby you don't know?". Sigh.

But the food chain and speciesism is something that exists across the animal kingdom, everyone eats each other. I'm a vegetarian and I don't necessarily disagree with meat-eating, as long as it's a painless as possible death, but the money-hungry world of animal farming makes me sick. We don't need as much meat as we produce, it's all greed. I guess money is more important than living creatures...

(also expecting negs, aware there will be holes in my 'argument', but it's more just my thoughts on the matter)

[Snorrrlax]

(Original post by SmileAway)
No, I am not saying that cannibalism is alright - I never mentioned it. Animals in the same species don't usually eat each other, thus it isn't acceptable. So what I can survive without a LOT of things, but I like that taste of meat. So sue me.

I was just pointing out that animals don't really have any other choice, whereas we do, so to say its okay to do because they do is a bit pathetic.

Also, if humanity is as clever as we say, why are you using the habits of a less intelligent species as an example of how to live? That's like an adult claiming it's okay to throw food around the house simply because their child did it, for example.

[SmileAway]

(Original post by Snorrrlax)
I was just pointing out that animals don't really have any other choice, whereas we do, so to say its okay to do because they do is a bit pathetic.

Also, if humanity is as clever as we say, why are you using the habits of a less intelligent species as an example of how to live? That's like an adult claiming it's okay to throw food around the house simply because their child did it, for example.

I am saying its okay because I like eating meat, and getting all the lovely protein it provides - which I can get from nuts, and lentils or whatever; but I prefer eating meat. I never even mentioned anything about being more intelligent, you think that. I never once even suggested it. I am just saying that's the natural food chain. I am not using them as a basis of my life I am simply stating that we are predators, as carnivores; unless you choose to be a veggie obviously.

[Snorrrlax]

I would be interested to see what people think of the film

[miser]

Yes, I agree. I think causing suffering in any form when it isn't necessary can't in good conscience be considered ethical behaviour. Eating meat causes the suffering of animals; humans don't have to eat meat; causing unnecessary suffering is unethical; therefore humans eating meat is unethical. I don't believe that species, or the pleasure gained from eating meat should have any bearing on this. As a species, I think that we are unfortunately indulging in a selfishness (though not yet widely recognised) by continuing to eat meat when I think we're obligated to seek more humane alternatives.

The fact that this post is probably going to be seen as controversial is, to me, a symptom of how tradition often trumps reason (as we can all agree happens in a lot of issues), so I'd like to see if anyone would dispute the premises I gave, since unless those, or my logic in using them, is in question, the conclusion that humans eating meat is unethical has to follow.

[NeuralGroove]

(Original post by Snorrrlax)
Cannibalism is such a horrendous thing, but is there really that much difference between eating your own species and eating another? I'm not suggesting that cannibalism should be seen as more acceptable, I'm suggesting that eating animals should be seen as worse than it is.

Just because an animal isn't able to speak and is less intelligent, us humans see it as a lesser form of life. But it's still alive and is just as likely to have a "soul" as we are.

I encourage you to watch this online film that explains my views perfectly - http://www.earthlings.com/

What are your opinions on this?

There is something seriously, shockingly beautiful about human life that isn't present in animal life, and I find it moderately offensive, if not a little sad that people would degrade human life to nothing more exceptional than the life of a rabbit or a plankton.
An animal is essentially just a complex biological mechanism of gene propagation; a pulsating bag of meat.

The distinction is to be drawn because humans do, in many instances, uniquely ascend above this because of their consciousness, sentience and high levels of analytic intelligence. In other words, because a human being is not only 'aware' of what is happening to it, but is aware that there is an 'it' at all, they are more valuable. Self-identity is something that is exclusive to human beings, without it, pain and biological function are irrelevant.

[Snorrrlax]

bump

[meowmeowmew]

I saw the documentary on this. My boyfriend has been shown it and was horrified and sent me it afterwards. I found it far too upsetting to watch all of it. My feelings on the issue is that nothing should have to be caused unnecessary pain. I think that anybody who can deliberately cause anything or anyone pain is immoral.

However, I am not against eating meat, as it is something that happens naturally anyway. I am against cruel treatment of animals and I do wish standards were higher in regards to killing methods and treatment of the animals because I do think every living creature deserves respect, and I think this is what is lacking with many people. I think some people forget that animals also feel pain and are intelligent.

And I think every life has value, whether it is animal or human.

[meowmeowmew]

And I'll probably get comments about the meat thing but.. I'm too tired to elaborate right now. Or maybe I am just wrong, I don't know.

[idontthinkso]

If a goose solves the crisis I'll agree with you.