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Oxford to give Scots more of my taxmoney - after the Government already has!

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    (Original post by Electronica)
    Scotland operates on a budget surplus year in, year out
    Erm..no we absolutely do not! Scotland is in a considerable deficit at this very moment (as is almost all the western world).
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    Only Scots who's parents earn under 16k would be eligible for this, which is a tiny number. It's more concerned with Scots who stay in scotland because of the fees and recruiting talent.... as someone from Scotland studying in England I can tell you there are very few of us.
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    (Original post by jb_keep_walking)
    Vote 'Yes'!
    Salmond want's to keep the Queen, remain part of the EU, keep the pound, agree to keeping UK nuclear weapons based in Scotland.

    Whatever it is you think your voting 'Yes' to, it's not independence.
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    (Original post by Cyanohydrin)
    Erm..no we absolutely do not! Scotland is in a considerable deficit at this very moment (as is almost all the western world).
    It does, in the same way the EU does. It does not spend all of the borrowed money it is given by someone else.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    presumably, money being finite, this is coming out of the taxpayer's contribution.
    Utter garbage. Oxford Uni has numerous and diverse sources of funding.
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    (Original post by Electronica)
    Scotland operates on a budget surplus year in, year out
    Entirely wrong. In the last GERS report, Scotland was running a £6.4 billion deficit - and before you try and weasel out of it, that was including all oil revenues and so forth.

    At the end of the day the UK government wants to ringfence the financial sector and take it out on the ordinary individual - when most Scottish people just want rid of all the Conservatives' bull**** about competitiveness.
    If most Scottish people believed anything of the sort, they'd be idiots. They'd also be ****ting in their own greenhouse considering the masses of jobs in Scotland dependent on the financial sector.

    and it's because all the public spending - transport etc - for the UK is concentrated on London and nowhere else. I also feel sorry for the North of England.
    As do I, considering that places like Scotland get disproportionately high public spending whilst the North East and so forth get utterly shafted.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Utter garbage. Oxford Uni has numerous and diverse sources of funding.
    How many are Scottish Government only? The more Oxford spends on one part of the UK, the less there is to spend on the rest.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    How many are Scottish Government only? The more Oxford spends on one part of the UK, the less there is to spend on the rest.
    The university is not egalitarian in its spending. If it believes there is a problem in recruiting able candidates from certain places, then it can - and will - spend money on trying to attract them.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    The university is not egalitarian in its spending. If it believes there is a problem in recruiting able candidates from certain places, then it can - and will - spend money on trying to attract them.
    It CAN, my point is that is SHOULD NOT.

    As a taxpayer funded entity it has no right to either.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    I blame both the institution and the two Governments involved in the Scottish university funding. The central government needs to bring Scottish per capita funding down to the levels of England (a roughly 18% cut), which would probably cause the Scottish to require tuition fees (I would suggest that they can only afford the free tuition because they are given more money than England). Oxford University needs to focus on helping poor students regardless of background, instead of heaping subsidies on a small group (8% of the population)
    I can't say I know much about Oxford's funding as far as Scottish students go, but I can say that from my personal experience they couldn't be more helpful to poor students. I'm from a (very) low income family and with the financial support that Oxford offers for people in my situation, I'm going to be much better off as far as fees, costs of living etc than my friend, whose household income is over 50,000. They really do their part for low income families- fee waivers, huge grants, and there are emergency funds in place aswell.
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    (Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
    English Universities should ... Not try and be social equalisers
    I'd really like a justification for this statement. English universities - particularly those with a massively disproportionate privately educated intake, like Oxford - can do a great deal to aid social equality by favouring the bright over the rich. I don't see why anyone would disagree with this.

    Certainly there are some issues with the way that Scottish university funding is handled relative to English university funding, but I find the idea that universities should allow privilege to be more important than academic talent (even when it hurts them academically) to be pretty incomprehensible.
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    (Original post by stinkerbelll)
    I can't say I know much about Oxford's funding as far as Scottish students go, but I can say that from my personal experience they couldn't be more helpful to poor students. I'm from a (very) low income family and with the financial support that Oxford offers for people in my situation, I'm going to be much better off as far as fees, costs of living etc than my friend, whose household income is over 50,000. They really do their part for low income families- fee waivers, huge grants, and there are emergency funds in place aswell.
    I'm glad to hear this, especially as I am one of those who defends Oxford when the accusations of financial elitism come around, but I still feel that your support should not be based on where you used to live, but on need.
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    Let us realise that the Scottish Government was given an education budget to support the education of Scots. They chose to spend that only on Scots studying in Scotland.

    Scots studying in England must acknowledge that the Scottish Government gave money which should have been allocated to them only to Scots which study in Scotland.

    I do not see why Oxford should correct this, using the tax money assigned to it for use by English students. It is the Scottish Government at fault here.
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    (Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
    I do not see why Oxford should correct this, using the tax money assigned to it for use by English students. It is the Scottish Government at fault here.
    Again, Oxford has other sources of revenue and bursaries and so on tend to be met out of these. It is not a government department.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Again, Oxford has other sources of revenue and bursaries and so on tend to be met out of these. It is not a government department.
    (Original post by Oxford University)

    • In 2010-11, total University income was £919.6m.
    • The University’s largest source of income continues to be external research grants and contracts. In 2010-11 41% (£376.7m) of total income was derived from external research sponsors.
    • Of the remaining income, 22% came from grants from the Higher Education Funding Council for England and the Teaching and Development Agency; 16% from academic fees; and 21% from other sources including trading activities and investments.
    I was waiting for someone to comment on alternative income sources.

    Considering the University only as an educational institution (ie. not research), 65% of its income originates from the taxpayer.

    A large proportion of the research grants will come from the taxpayer also, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.

    As such a large stakeholder, Oxford has a responsibility to the taxpayer to spend all of its income responsibly, not just the income it derives from the taxpayer.

    As such it should not be wasting income which would otherwise have been spent on the education of its students acting as a quasi-social engineering tool. It is effectively robbing the taxpayer of the value of the education it would otherwise have spent this money imparting.
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    (Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
    I was waiting for someone to comment on alternative income sources.

    Considering the University only as an educational institution (ie. not research), 65% of its income originates from the taxpayer.
    I'm not sure how you manage to get to that figure provided what you've just quoted. However, to try to consider the university separately from... er... the university is absolutely daft.

    As such a large stakeholder, Oxford has a responsibility to the taxpayer to spend all of its income responsibly, not just the income it derives from the taxpayer.
    Your arse it does. You might as well argue that the state should tell people who receive some top-up benefits, but also earn a wage, how they should spend their money.

    As such it should not be wasting income which would otherwise have been spent on the education of its students acting as a quasi-social engineering tool.
    I'm not sure I'd consider trying to get the best students, regardless of where they come from, 'quasi-social engineering'. Maybe in a parallel world.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I'm not sure how you manage to get to that figure provided what you've just quoted. However, to try to consider the university separately from... er... the university is absolutely daft.
    (22% HEFC funding + 16% academic fees)/(1 - 41% research income) = 65%

    I'm not sure I'd consider trying to get the best students, regardless of where they come from, 'quasi-social engineering'. Maybe in a parallel world.
    There is a difference between getting "the best students" and paying for "the best students" with my tax money.

    Your welfare analogy is not applicable as welfare claimants do not have an obligation to act in the public good.
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    (Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
    (22% HEFC funding + 16% academic fees)/(1 - 41% research income) = 65%
    How are academic fees funds from the government?


    There is a difference between getting "the best students" and paying for "the best students" with my tax money.
    There really isn't...
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    (Original post by L i b)
    There really isn't...
    I thought you were a Conservative?
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    (Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
    There is a difference between getting "the best students" and paying for "the best students" with my tax money.
    The money is to be spent on attracting the best possible candidates. They should not be forced to seek candidates from England if they can use the money to attract better candidates from elsewhere.

    Your welfare analogy is not applicable as welfare claimants do not have an obligation to act in the public good.
    But Oxford is acting in the public good. It isn't spending any more money than if it limited its search to English students and is in fact getting better value for money.

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Updated: June 17, 2012
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