Oxford to give Scots more of my taxmoney - after the Government already has!
Discuss issues related to the politics of the UK, such as the actions of any MP, any current or potential law, or any other factor affecting the British political system.
| Announcements | Posted on | |
|---|---|---|
-
- Reputation:
- Exalted Member
- Posts: 253
Re: Oxford to give Scots more of my taxmoney - after the Government already has!Oh here we go. I'm assuming you are English, probably a 'Little Englander'?.(Original post by OMGWTFBBQ)
Scottish Government uses my tax money to subsidise Scottish students in Scottish Universities. Then Oxford uses my tax money to subsidise Scottish students in English Universities. English Universities should
- Not try and be social equalisers
- Not involve themselves in this ridicules politics
- Work in the sole interests of the taxpayers who fund them
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-18432453
Your opinions?
It may surprise you that Wales and Scotland actually pay taxes and send every penny down to London. In the case of Scotland they collect more money in tax than they receive back in spending from London.
SO the Welsh and Scottish Governments have decided to go down a different education policy from England. That's it, nothing more. If you are angry about this then you need to email the british government to change this... or would you be happier that Wales and Scotland have to also pay £9,000 (seems kinda selfish from my opinion).
Oxford does receive money from the tax payers, however it has vasts amount from research and private donors. The amount of money given to Scotland can easily fall into this category. Ultimately, in fairness to Oxford they want Scots to go down there, now as it is free in Scotland- why would anyone bother going down to England. There must be an incentive- this is it. We should all congratulate Oxford for doing this and trying to increase access to their Uni not this "what about us attitude" that is rife in England at the moment.
So yes, we in Wales and Scotland will continue to get the free prescriptions, subsidised education, free car parking in hospitals etc. We pay taxes. If you are not happy about this, you should challenge YOUR government so they can spend money on other things rather than large scale IT projects.
Finally, to stop this myth about how the English subsidise everyone and how bad it is for them. According to treasury figures, which region do you think receives the most money from government? Wales? Scotland? NI?, NO- it is LONDON (as this funny video of Paxman illustrates" see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gy7f8vP2QY..... skip to 2:32 to see Paxman getting annoyed)
Essentially - stop whining!.
Last edited by UnderPost; 16-06-2012 at 23:11. -
- Reputation:
- Exalted Member
- Posts: 253
Re: Oxford to give Scots more of my taxmoney - after the Government already has!Oh, and by the way.
If anybody is wondering why Oxford hasn't offered a similar scholarship to the Welsh, the answer is simple.
The Welsh Government will subsidise the course of Welsh students WHEREVER they are taken. So in September in Oxford, Liverpool, Manchester, ICL and so forth- you will have an English student paying £9,000 (or £27,000 over 3 yrs) in fees whereas the Welsh one paying £3,300 (or £9,900 over 3 yrs) thanks to the subsidy.
This is quite controversial. On the one hand, that Welsh student is fortunate that he will receive support from Wales. However on the other hand it is quite controversial as in effect the Welsh Government will be subsidising the English Uni's. So surely a better policy would be to go back to the old one: you only get a subsidy if you study in Wales (or elsewhere if the course is not available in Wales). -
- Reputation:
- Thread Starter
- Overlord in Training
- Location: Manchester
Re: Oxford to give Scots more of my taxmoney - after the Government already has!The Scottish Government, unlike the Welsh, decided to spend its entire budget on making education for Scots in Scotland free. This is instead of offering support to Scottish students whereever in the UK.(Original post by UnderPost)
So yes, we in Wales and Scotland will continue to get the free prescriptions, subsidised education, free car parking in hospitals etc. We pay taxes. If you are not happy about this, you should challenge YOUR government so they can spend money on other things rather than large scale IT projects.
That is the Scottish Government's decision. Scots should hold their Government to account if they dislike this... but instead Oxford is using my tax money to step in? Surely you can see the issue here? -
- Reputation:
- TSR Deity
Re: Oxford to give Scots more of my taxmoney - after the Government already has!Why should students be penalised for choosing to study outside Wales? After all, if they're due this money, I don't see what business it is of the Welsh Government where they spend it.(Original post by UnderPost)
Oh, and by the way.
If anybody is wondering why Oxford hasn't offered a similar scholarship to the Welsh, the answer is simple.
The Welsh Government will subsidise the course of Welsh students WHEREVER they are taken. So in September in Oxford, Liverpool, Manchester, ICL and so forth- you will have an English student paying £9,000 (or £27,000 over 3 yrs) in fees whereas the Welsh one paying £3,300 (or £9,900 over 3 yrs) thanks to the subsidy.
This is quite controversial. On the one hand, that Welsh student is fortunate that he will receive support from Wales. However on the other hand it is quite controversial as in effect the Welsh Government will be subsidising the English Uni's. So surely a better policy would be to go back to the old one: you only get a subsidy if you study in Wales (or elsewhere if the course is not available in Wales).
One of the biggest problems that I have with the Scottish system is that it doesn't do this. It encourages inward-looking parochialism - and frankly we've got more than enough of that in Scotland already! -
- Reputation:
- Exalted Member
- Posts: 253
Re: Oxford to give Scots more of my taxmoney - after the Government already has!In an ideal world I'd agree with you. However unfortunately budgets are tight (and the Welsh Government works to a set budget). It depends on X amounts of students coming into Wales from England. I.e the English students subsidising the Welsh students. Unfortunately the number of these have fallen and the policy will cost more money than was envisaged.(Original post by L i b)
Why should students be penalised for choosing to study outside Wales? After all, if they're due this money, I don't see what business it is of the Welsh Government where they spend it.
One of the biggest problems that I have with the Scottish system is that it doesn't do this. It encourages inward-looking parochialism - and frankly we've got more than enough of that in Scotland already!
But ultimately, the Welsh Government has control over higher education instituions in Wales. It is given its fair share of revenuen to spend this. It has decided to spend the money on this to help students (fair enough). Rather than just give the money straight to instituions. Uni's will now see money allocated to them, actually going cross border to other Uni's. Yes, you can say the Welsh Government is subsidising English Uni's. This seems wrong doesn't it?.
Other reasons- if the Government can force students to go to Welsh Uni's (as it is cheaper) won't it mean more competition for places? This in turn brings the best into our Universities. Boosts rankings etc.
The Welsh Gov may also like to say "Welsh Unis offer the best courses, there is no need for you to go over the border".
Finally other social factors- many people tend to stay around the Uni they went to. If we allow students to go away we lose many Welsh citizens. This is of particular importance in the West / North West with Welsh speakers moving to English cities.
The main point however is that Wales is not independent. The Welsh Gov cannot raise its own taxes. Money is therefore earmarked to Welsh Uni's via a complex mechanism (based on what English Unis receive). It is just not fair that this money is then given to English Unis, which in effect are getting double funding at the cost of the Welsh Unis.
It is like giving £10 to a child as a gift, but his parents taking that £10 and buying a DVD with it. That isn't what the money was given for. -
- Reputation:
- TSR Deity
Re: Oxford to give Scots more of my taxmoney - after the Government already has!If it wants to take an institutional approach, it should fund all students - including the English, Scottish and Northern Irish ones. If it chooses to take the approach that it is there to benefit people resident in Wales, then it should fund them all regardless of where they want to go.(Original post by UnderPost)
In aBut ultimately, the Welsh Government has control over higher education instituions in Wales.
The current system is an unfair hodgepodge, as far as I'm concerned.
As I've said, you either take one approach or the other. The money is provided to the Welsh Assembly without any indication of what a 'share' should go towards, they can spend it how they like.It is given its fair share of revenuen to spend this. It has decided to spend the money on this to help students (fair enough). Rather than just give the money straight to instituions. Uni's will now see money allocated to them, actually going cross border to other Uni's. Yes, you can say the Welsh Government is subsidising English Uni's. This seems wrong doesn't it?.
Anyway, the Welsh Government wouldn't be 'subsidising' anything - tuition fees, even if they were paid by the Welsh Govt - don't meet the total cost of tuition at university.
It also limits the outlook of the Welsh people.Other reasons- if the Government can force students to go to Welsh Uni's (as it is cheaper) won't it mean more competition for places? This in turn brings the best into our Universities. Boosts rankings etc.
